1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hey Guest, We're having our annual Winter Moot and we'd love you to come. PLEASE LOOK HERE to secure your place and get more information.
    For forum threads CLICK HERE
    Dismiss Notice

British Bushcraft and the 21st Century

Discussion in 'Bushcraft Chatter' started by nobby, May 21, 2006.

  1. stovie

    stovie Need to contact Admin...

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,658
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Balcombes Copse

    So you started out by running around in a black leather suit, mask and cape waving a light sabre at any oncoming communists... :lmao:

    It must be raining if you're posting at this time of day ;)
     
  2. JonnyP

    JonnyP Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Cornwall...
    You have me sussed Stovie, you are right on both things.................Jon
     
  3. running bare

    running bare Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    jarrow,tyne & wear uk
    well put mate...i for one will rather repair than replace ie we've had a washing machine for 16 yrs and when it broke down id repair it. must admit that we have now replaced it as the cost of parts was just economically unviable,i have a sheet of used perspex as arear windscreen in my car until a scrap yard gets one in, its been like that since october last year. but as you pointed out we are living in a throw away consumer society and that mentality really needs to be changed if people want to leave a habitable world for our descendants
     
  4. British Red

    British Red M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    25,474
    Likes Received:
    296
    Location:
    Mercia
    Dunc,

    I take your point but I wonder...how many people on this forum own gear that they never (or rarely) use? How much of that gear is stuff like silnylon or Goretex etc.? How much energy was consumed making that gear? How much fossil fuel went into the synthetics?

    I'm playing devils advocate of course, but I think I can defend the position that Bushcraft of itself does not help the environment at all and is a hobby for its participants. Sure it might bring us closer to an appreciation of the natural world, but its only changing lifestyles that actually helps that environment - other than that we understand it whilst we watch it decline :(


    Red
     
  5. nobby

    nobby New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2005
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    English Midlands
    Well, I'm guilty here but it takes awhile to work out what suits you best. I was tightly woven Egyptian cotton jackets and mini petrol stoves in the '70's when I was a cycle camper. Nowadays it's Goretex and Trangia or hobo stove.
    You can always sell the old gear on eBay and make somebody else happy.
    Might I take the opportunity to recommend the Landrover as a friendly vehicle? If it is old enough there is no road tax, it will have more than paid back the carbon cost of its making by its long life, it is the ultimate Mechano (old style Technics Lego) set, parts are infinitely replaceable from new or secondhand sources, you can sleep in the back (diagonally in a swb if you are under 5' 7"), and if it rains you'll always have freshwater because some of it will leak in.
     
  6. gregorach

    gregorach Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,723
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    I see what you're saying Red, but I tend to regard nothing as wasted until it gets permanently disposed off. Just because you aren't using something now doesn't mean it won't get used in future, passed on to someone who will use it, or made into something else that will get used.

    Oh, I agree completely. But changing lifestyle usually requires a catalyst, and I think bushcraft can provide that. It's gotta be better than all that dippy-hippy crystals-and-space-aliens nonesense (and I say that as a self-identifing hippy). ;) :)
     
  7. British Red

    British Red M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    25,474
    Likes Received:
    296
    Location:
    Mercia
    Perhaps, but isn't part of the problem that we identified the "want" rather than "need" motivation as bad (referring back to the illustration of fixing up what you have)? Surely describing the ethic as one of "make do and mend" is countered by the "buy lots of toys becuase it cheers me up even though I don't really need 'em" rebuttal :confused: ;)


    Can't argue with the rquirement for an epiphany, but, becuase Bushcraft can provide such a catalyst, does that mean it invariably (or even usually) does ?

    (returns large wooden spoon to kitchen) :D


    Red
     
  8. gregorach

    gregorach Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,723
    Likes Received:
    26
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Both very good points... I guess what it comes down to is that there is no black or white in such matters, just infinitely varied shades of gray. ;)

    I guess bushcraft itself is very like the resources it uses - it all depends on what you make of it.
     
  9. ilan

    ilan Nomad

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    bromley kent uk
    bush craft has little to do in 21st century england for most if not all our open spaces are strictly regulated so at most you will get a watered down experience for a couple of days unless you have access to your own woodland . Indeed the term Bushcraft is perhaps an unfortunate one as it gives the image of surviving in the australian or african bush . What i get the impression Ray Mears and others are trying to teach goes beyond bushcraft into a sort of "eccocraft" A "river cottage" low enviromental footprint lifestyle taking and giving working with nature . This is perfectly possible even in an inner city environment buying only from reputable suppliers if possible local / english producers growing vegtables in window boxes etc by all means venture into the great outdoors but play within the rules.
     
  10. nobby

    nobby New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2005
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    English Midlands
    I think that this is very true and to be honest I don't want the 'full' bushcraft experience. Chasing through the woods waiting for a poison arrow to have an effect strikes me as foolish if I can get a clean kill with an air rifle. Having said that I don't hunt anymore.
    The River Cottage analogy is good, and that eccentric guy with the big mouse who is living green, is showing a similar path.
    I prefer the Ray Mears episodes that deal with climates and people similar to what I am familiar with. I'm likely to get more useful info from them. Same with books; the North Americas experiences are more relevant to me. I have a book by an American who goes occasionally to live with the Hadzu in Africa. Very different experience to the view given by RM. The only thing that I have in common with them seems to be alcohol, and I don't use it to excess anymore.
    One of my favourite RM episodes is the one where he teaches the South American Indian how to light a fire without matches. The look on the guys face, the obvious delight that RM got from being able to pass the knowledge on, and the fact that it released the fellow from a 20 mile trip for matches made it memorable. It is, however, totally irrelevant to me here in 21st century Britain. I like a firesteel which last for ages and is a glorified box of matches which, let's face it, I can buy almost anywhere. I don't need to be able to use a fire drill, construct a shelter from woodland materials, make arrowheads, bows, spears or traps. Not that it isn't fun to do so, it just isn't necessary.
    I had a one to one course with Andrew Packer of Nomad Bushcraft at Lyme Regis last year. I told him what I was interested in - mainly finding food at the sea and beach interface - and he put two days of instruction together for me. It was fantastic and worth every penny including the speeding fine I collected in the Quantocks. I fully expect to make use of it over the next few years as I sail my little boat around the coast and up and down rivers.
    Combined with the energy and water savings that I can make at home, Ecocraft labels where Bushcraft in 21st Century Britain is for me. As from today I am going to strive to be an Ecocrafter. At least until a better label comes along :0) Thanks Ilan
     
  11. ilan

    ilan Nomad

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    bromley kent uk
    Hi thanks for that . As i see it if we buy local/english produce then that farmer will survive If we start to buy hazel poles for the bean poles or garden use, then someone will produce it so saving a traditional trade and encourage more widespread use of traditional wood management cos its profitable . If you look around you there is plenty that can be done. there is a growing trend to buck the commercial pressure to buy this or that instead its great to see how much pleasure can be gained from making somthing yourself . Just witnness some of the efforts of people in this community . I am able to virtualy heat the house and supply most of the hot water needs just from scrap timber salvaged from builders skips indeed i think an" ecocraft " aproach is one of the few ways forward for us .
     
  12. laurens ch

    laurens ch New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    south wales united kingdom
    While I don’t think bushcraft is good for the environment in a direct sense, it does give people more respect for nature so they may think twice about setting that dead bracken on fire or dropping litter etc.
     
  13. laurens ch

    laurens ch New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    south wales united kingdom
    tyrcian
    "I am not being racist or anything here, but I am speaking in terms of popoulation. I heard some way that if asylum seekers and foreigners keep coming to live in the UK, then in 50 years or so the British popularity will be a minority. Made me wonder if the planet is getting to small for us?"

    It's only the number of asylum seekers entering the uk which stop this country having a shrinking population and that’s not necessarily a good thing. Although it would do the environment no end of good.
     
  14. nobby

    nobby New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2005
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    English Midlands
    I was rather hoping that somebody else would reply to this but here goes.

    "It's only the number of asylum seekers entering the uk which stop this country having a shrinking population"
    Is this a fact? If the UK has a shrinking population it would take an awful lot of asylum seekers to overcome that. Are we talking more people dying and less people being born? Is that across the whole UK or just parts of it?

    "and that’s not necessarily a good thing"
    What isn't?
     
  15. laurens ch

    laurens ch New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    south wales united kingdom
    Yes I’m pretty sure more people are dying in the uk than are being born.
    I think theres only a small difference between births and deaths so I guess it doesn't take many immigrants to swing the balance. Other countries in Europe who haven’t opened their borders completely to the new eu states like Italy for example have a shrinking population .ie deaths outweigh births. I’m no expert in the subject by the way this is just what I know from my geography a levels.I wasn't having a go at tyrcian either i wish i hadn't posted now to be honest.
     
  16. Great Pebble

    Great Pebble Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Belfast, Northern Ireland
    A population drop in the UK would be no bad thing.
     
  17. ilan

    ilan Nomad

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    bromley kent uk
    err why do we need all these new homes that are being built ? The problem is we pay people not to do those low paid jobs :confused: The other difficultiy is that we loose nearly as many british citizens to other countries as the retire they of course take with them a vast amount of capital which is not then spent in this country whilst those new to this country are generaly seeking a new life and oppotunity but lack investment capital
     
  18. running bare

    running bare Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    jarrow,tyne & wear uk
    but why are so many british citizens leaving the country for abroad????could be the weather. or a better lifestyle more than likely
     
  19. ilan

    ilan Nomad

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    bromley kent uk
    Yes i think is a better life style the grass is allways greener etc , what the worry is that the people moving abroad traditionaly have more disposable income which is lost to our ecconomy
     
  20. running bare

    running bare Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    jarrow,tyne & wear uk
    aahh could that be due to overpricing,underpaid and overtaxation??? :D
     

Share This Page