Another thought

[Gary]

Another thought for the day (hopefully this one wont turn into an argument!)

We have discussed the difference between Survival skills and bushcraft in the past but I am curious as to what people think the differnce is between Bushcraft and Prinitive living skills.

Personally I would say primitive living is a step beyond Bushcraft and far more in tune with nature and the essence of 'the craft' in its purest form.

 

[BorderReiver]

Another thought for the day (hopefully this one wont turn into an argument!)
Personally I would say primitive living is a step beyond Bushcraft and far more in tune with nature and the essence of 'the craft' in its purest form.

No argument from me Gary.

Cultures that still live "in the wild" HAVE to use the skills that we emulate just to survive.You bet they are a step beyond us.

 

[JakeR]

It's more of a chore for them, and a challenge for us. (Us being busgcrafters who do it for fun). I suppose chore brings up connotations of the "mundane" but i don't think so. Just a way of life.

 

[jakunen]

No argument here either.

 

[Gary]

Im not talking about cultures I am taking about the skills, i,e

I am a bushcrafter instructor

I am a primitive living instructor

The difference is?

 

[jakunen]

Ok...here's my definition then... you may not agree, but...

Bushcraft: Skills learnt for interest to make camping more fun/successful/easier.

Primitive living: Life skills required to live from the land, not just for fun.

I think the intro to Paul Rezendes "Tracking and hte art of seeing" defines the difference best.

The native Americans were in touch with nature and reaslised that they were a part of the cycle of life. The animals affected the plants which affected man who affected the animals who...
They had more respect for nature and what the spirits gave them, unlike the Europenas when they landed whom God had given complete dominion over everything.

For me primitive living as well as being more tied to the cycle of life and existing, rather than just survivng, is more spiritual, and encompasses bushcraft. Whereas bushcraft is less spiritual, for most, and more about secondary skills of comfort than living. A bushcraft can survive without primitive living skills, but not the other way round.

 

[leon-1]

It is a very good question and very much relies upon how you inteperet it.

Bushcraft; practicing old skills using new equipment tools and a methodology, the equipment is bought and not manufactured in the field.

Primitive living skills; more about living and adapting. Use of old technologies (hand drill and fire bow rather than firesteel), manufacture of equipment (knives from flint knaping and the manufacture of clothing from hides), shelter from nature and not a hootchie or basha load carriage in a swag rather than a sabre45.

It is the original back to basics and also where you will see the evolution of man in a short space of time because once he gets on his feet he will constantly strive to improve and adapt that which he has to be more efficient and more labour saving.

Or at least that is how I look at it

 

[Adi007]

I agree with Leon - the difference is kit and whether that kit has been manufactured using technology that is of a higher level than that attainable by others living in the same or similar way. I've seen terms used to technology levers from level A to D, where level A is primitive level utilizing only fire and basic tools while level D technologies include things such as electricity, engines and computers. Level A and perhaps small scale level B (basic agriculture) would be the mark of true primitive living whereas going out in clothing and gear made from plastics or using modern technologies would be bushcraft.

 

[mal]

I agree with the comments on kit but also i think you have to look at a basic mined set when your starving and freezing and on the verge of hypothermia you back up go home have a nice hot bath and a whisky and some food and Wait for the next day off work when you can go out to play again,the other guy finds shelter food and fire or he dies........

 

[nomade]

"Primitive" here I guess means mainly "of First nations" or "of our ancestors" which is one and the same thing given the (to me) obvious unity of human kind.

Now those "primitive " skills are and will remain the model I aim at at every stage of my bushcraft training.

To me, their only difference with "bushcraft" skills are that they only rely on materials found or made before the industrial age.

And on the related skills.


As regards now the mindset: "Primitive" and "Bushcraft" mindsets overlap or even coincide in very advanced and gifted bushcrafters.

The main difference seems to me that in first nations or our ancestral communities these skills are(were) seen and learned from an early age in life and experienced as the norm. They were always second nature.

They were also an integral part of spiritual/religious belief as part of the universe itself and its sacred order.

This can be the case with a bushcrafter of a lifetime of experience of the wild and long stays sharing the life of a given "primitive" community.

But for most of us, this level incorporation of our skills into the depth of our personality would be difficult to reach.

Just some thoughts as they come...

 

[BorderReiver]

Im not talking about cultures I am taking about the skills, i,e

I am a bushcrafter instructor

I am a primitive living instructor

The difference is?

IMO a bushcraft instructor teaches basic outdoors living to be used as a hobby.

A Primtive Skills instructor would teach those who want to get back to living in a primitive fashion full time.I understand that some in the USA are into that sort of thing.

As most of the others have said,it boils down to kit really as most of the skills will overlap a good deal.

 

[RovingArcher]

Culture has little to do with it I think. It seems that each culture used primarily the same primitive skills in their development.

I don't really see a difference between Bushcraft and Primitive living skills. Equipment aside, primitive living is where we are all heading anyways and speaking in a more general sense, whether we actually use those skills we are learning or not, they will be practiced and there if we need them.

Kind of a de-evolution of technology is taking place all around the world. These types of happenings don't take place for no reason. So, perhaps sometime in the future, whether it be in our lifetime or the lifetime of a distance relative, we will again have need for them.

 

[Abbe Osram]

Another thought for the day (hopefully this one wont turn into an argument!)

We have discussed the difference between Survival skills and bushcraft in the past but I am curious as to what people think the differnce is between Bushcraft and Prinitive living skills.

Personally I would say primitive living is a step beyond Bushcraft and far more in tune with nature and the essence of 'the craft' in its purest form.

Hi
I don't know if I am right here in the discussion but my two 2cents are:

For me a Bushcrafter is a guest in the forest. He can leave it after a while or if he miscalculated something he will turn back home into his other life. Even if he love to stay and enjoy being in the bush for a extended time he still will have a place to turn back to. In that way a Bushcrafter is a tourist, he doesn't have to face the consequences of living and staying in the wild. In the case of hunting, if it goes bad for the bushcrafter he can go home and eat there. But a native living from hunting will die if he doesn't catch something. He choose to LIVE and doesn't VISIT, he is not a tourist going back home. If you are talking about primitive living, I would put the emphasize on LIVING and taking the consequences for it. Therefore primitive "LIVING". I believe that you have to live that kind of live before you can teach it, it should be more than some native skills, it involves LIVE and experience, not at a guest but with the consequence of dying.

cheers
Abbe

 

[Gary]

Abbe there is no right or wrong answer here - I am just interested in peoples views.

Modern man is, in many ways, to hung up on terminology. Just reading the replies above, and harking back to the survival/bushcraft thread, I am inclined to believe they are really all the same thing the only difference is how we percieve them to be.

Bushcraft, Primitive living and survival skills are all the same, the gear changes in some respects so does the ethics but they are all feathers on the same bird.

Its all relative, for instance I now prefer to use flint and steel over a firesteel because I find the firesteel too easy but more importantly I like the ritual of lighting a fire with flint and steel. Some would say I am using a primitive technique because it doesnt involve modern technology, others that it is a modern techinque because it involves the use of Metal - IMO its just a matter of prespective.

 

[Quill]

Bushcraft definately has better toys to play with. I agree that primitive skills go steps beyond. Not many people want to go there full time. Even primitive cultures wanted things that advanced cultures had. I love going out in the desert and seeing Pueblo ruins. Would I really want to live like that? No, I appreciate modern conveniances. So my meanderings of thought say that primitive is to take you from naked with nothing to point where you keep living using only the things nature provides. Bushcraft allows you to hit the ground running in such a situation, with the best tools you can carry.

 

[TheViking]

Bushcraft, Primitive living and survival skills are all the same, the gear changes in some respects so does the ethics but they are all feathers on the same bird.

I can agree on that. Maybe we call it bushcraft, because we wan't to disguise it from what it really is, survival techniques. Bushcraft is the son, survival is the father.

So my opinion is what you said above /\ they're all the same, but there are some differences in kit, ethics, etc. :biggthump

 

[Les Marshall]

Garry, you've done it again mate! I have to aggree with Jakunen's point of view. I hate to use the word primative, but I cannot think of another word for it at the moment, but our primative brothers and sisters, do have a more spiritual outlook on the way they live and they tend to be the happier for it (or am I wrong?). I was interested in your remark about the flint and steel, to my way of thinking, you were touching on something spiritual.

 

[Squidders]

My 2p's worth:

Bushcraft doesn't change, it's adaptable and fluid, you can enjoy and practice pushcraft with any tools you please and in any environment you please and in any millenium you're in, bushcraft in 2000 years time will still be bushcraft.

Primitive living in 2000 years may involve dialing ye olde pizza hut and then spending a night dialing up to a historic Interweb Service Provider... this would be a nice diversion from the daily grind of holographic clothing, avoiding your 13 cloned mother in-laws, near light speed commuting to Mars and twice daily Kabala meetings.

2000 years ago primitive living consisted of running around with clubs in next to no clothing in the woods.

I agree that they are pretty closely related but I think of primitive as more of a relation to where we were yesterday compaired to where we are today today and I see bushcraft as being a little more timeless because it's not restricted by time, I'm sure 10,000 years ago blokes used to just get away for a few days and be out in the woods free from stress, that to me is bushcraft.

I try not to think of myself as modern but as current. Years from now I'm going to dance like my dad, listen to out of date music, dress badly and complain about the noise... That can't possibly classify me as modern can it?

 

[jem seeley]

My 2p's worth too!
For me survival is just that- subsisting. It is about staying alive, getting food ,water, shelter, etc. It is all about getting out of that situation.
On the other hand Bushcraft is about living. I think all 'primitive' peoples practice Bushcraft.It is about living comfortably in your surroundings not merely getting by.The difference between us and tribal or 'primitive' groups is that we have the luxury of dipping in and out rather than living it full time.
We also have the option of choosing the environment we want to be in.
Bushcraft encompasses a huge area of knowledge of which Survival is just a small but fundamental part.

 

[Carcajou Garou]

Bushcrafting is by choice,
Primitive living is by birth/circumstance/situation
Most primitive living people (aboriginals) modernize to include as many newer technologies as they can make use in their daily needs, sometimes they go to far... and lose themselves. They also died a lot from starvation, exposure accidents, their isolation also made them sensitive to outside disease etc.. there is/was no safety net for them.
just a thought