Calling experienced hillwalkers help needed!

[bushcraftbob]

Me and a friend are planning a days walk and an overnight camp this saturday, in the Black Mountains, south Wales. I am getting quite nervous as never really done any proper winter hill walking, and im sure the place will be covered in snow and will be a bit on the chilly side to say the least.

We are both fairly competent navigators, but neither of us have done any navigation in the snow. I would be happy to go for a short bimble sticking to major paths, and get to camp nice and early and have plenty of time to pitch / chill etc, but my mate is a bit of a macho sort, and have a feeling my mate will want to push ourselves a lot harder, and a bit worried the route will be too much, and wont leave us much time to pick a good site and set up camp properly.

I intend to kip in my one man backpacking tent, but we may use my friends two manner, as it will be warmer with us both in the tent (ooer missus!) and we can share the weight.

During the day i intend to wear a base layer up top, with a micro fleece on top with my waterproof / windproof jacket over this (as i get quite hot when walking), but am also taking the clothing below for when we stop.

Basic kit list:

Tent
Winter sleeping bag
alpkit airic kipmat
Bergen

Clothing:

Thermal base layer (top and bottoms)
Micro fleece
Thick fleece
Long sleeved cotton t-shirt
Down jacket (taken in a stuff sack)
Waterproof / windproof jacket and trousers
Waterproof gloves
Arctic mitts just in case in turns proper baltic!
Thin socks with a thicker pair over the top
Neck gaitor
Wooly hat x 2 in case one gets wet and can put a dry one on in camp
Dinner kit comprising stove, mess tin, rat packs and food for the day
Head torch and spare batteries
Map & Compass and map case
Basic survival kit to keep on my person with whistle for attracting attention if stranded
Knife and firesteel
Lighter
2 litres of water and water purification tabs

Can anyone offer any tips for winter hill walking / camping? And are there any other bits of gear which might help? I will try and take the camera and take a few pics for the forum, providing i live to tell the tale!

Sorry for waffling a bit

 

[Barn Owl]

Insist on stopping to set camp when you feel the need.

Start off with base layer and windproof,if you run hot like me it won't be long until you're sweating.
When you stop for a while,have a towel or the like to wipe the moisture off and put on a dry top.

Dossing twos up is a good idea,use the other tent to store all your gear,keeping it dry.

Take enough food for two days,not one and stuff those empty corners with mars bars.

Oh and don't deviate from the route you've left with a responsible person.

 

[Seoras]

Adding to what Barnowl said do not put yourself in any situation you are not comfortable in handling.

Stick to well signposted tracks and always be aware of your escape routes at any given time.

If you are not that experienced and the weather is not good (or the forecast is not good) stay fairly low down.

On the other hand enjoy the adventure and see it as a positive experience but always let common sense prevail and do not let macho vibes take control.

George

 

[Walks with dogs]

For your first winter foray I would suggest going where you can bail easily if it gets too much or hairy. I'd pick a route that stays low and with relativly easy navigation that doesn't rely on paths, landmarks such as rivers , wooded areas etc are more reliable.

Be less ambitious than you otherwise would be. Winter walking takes longer, is physically harder and requires greater caution in my view. Days are shorter, things get ( obviously ) much colder and the stakes are generally higher. I really recommend either a winter skills course or a day or two with someone who can pass on the necessary skills before going out and just chancing it. Sorry to be a stick in the mud , I'm sure if you stay within your limits you can have a great time, just don't over stretch yourself.

 

[seb.h]

I always make sure that I have clothes to put on when I stop cos that's when your gonna feel it most. you should try to steer clear of the cotton as this wont wick your sweat away and then this will get cold (or freeze) and make you cold. I like the rab aeon tees they are pretty nice and quick wicking more of a summer thing though.

When you go to bed as hard as it may seem I wear as little as possible making sure I'm still comfortable enough to get to sleep. The reason being if you put all your clothes on before you go to sleep when you inevitably wake up cold you wont have anything else to stick on.

 

[Rigel]

Folks,

I am not sure about this (just an idea as I am just a novice as the author of this thread) but would a set of those muscular pain relief pads be any goo, in case of cold snap ? Such as these:

http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/cura-heat-back-and-shoulder_1_3173.html

Greg

 

[lannyman8]

id take a strobe of some sort just in case you get into th sh**...........if you dont have 1 you can use a piece of string tied and taped to a cylume (chemical light)...

as said before take plenty of food, dont forget food is fuel and when its cold you burn more......

get a survival bag and keep it on your person (ebay about £2) and 1 or 2 t light candles and a lighter and keep them on you too this would be used for when you get stuck or start going down.....just jump inside light the candle and pull the top round you toasty in 10 mins.......

also have a gander on the net for cold weather injuries ie frost nip frost bite and hyperthermia, pay most attention to hyperthermia as you dont notice it when you start to go down your self.......

again as said before pick a rought and stick to AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!! tell some person reliable and who knows a bit about map reading the rought and times of arival and departure, and a cut off time of when to call for help if needed.......

this all may seem basic but it may save your life if it comes to that......

again dont over do it when it comes to the walking, you ever tryed to walk in snow 2 foot deep or even more, IT'S NAILS.....lol......

just remember if in dought take your time and make a good decision, taking your time on decisions is one of the most important things, no bad decisions = no problems lol....

hope this helps....

chris..................................................

 

[lannyman8]

i would not bother with the heat pads and just get a brew on instead, it helps by warming you by the fire / stove and the hot liquid and also helps you keep hydrated which is realy important too...........

keep hydraited at all costs it will help all round......

 

[BigM]

Insist on stopping to set camp when you feel the need.

Most important.

 

[sapper1]

Take and wear crampons,you'll need them.

 

[Bluemerle]

Pretty much all has been said.Don't over stretch yourself, you will find winter mountain walking can suck the life out of you. know how to keep an eye on each other for possible signs of hypothermia, and know how to dea with it.Think long and hard about having a great weekend in the snow somewhere lower and less exposed, Mountains can be cruel unforgiving places in these conditions.

Finally i agree with Walks with Dogs, your first winter in mountains should be with someone experienced or on a recognized course. If you do go, be aware, be safe, and enjoy the experience.

End of Sermon

 

[Oarsnpaddle]

About those handwarmers:

I like my handvarmers, but not those chemical ones, as they are either single-use or needs to be boiled for twenty minutes to be able to be reused at a later day. Instead I have one that is fired up with a small coal rod. It works a treat, and the coal rods themselves don't weigh much, but burn around five hours (if memory serves me well) if lit at one end, half that if lit at both ends, but then it gives off a bit too much heat, imo.
I have used them for years for work when out in the cold doing recordings, standing by (standing still) etc. I don't rely on them for warmth when camping, but they can give me that extra boost of heat if I suddenly feel cold, my hands are wet or whatever.
I have heard hunters use them as boot dryers too, but I haven't tried that.

 

[seb.h]

I have one that is fired

these ones are much better but are I have found quite hard to get hold of on the high street. do you know any web stores?

 

[Oarsnpaddle]

these ones are much better but are I have found quite hard to get hold of on the high street. do you know any web stores?

I bought mine on "the high street" in an outdoor shop, they ought to have them at least in a hunting/fishing shop, but, anyway, being from Denmark, I often order stuff from Germany and checked in one of the stores I buy from, and they have them (mine are "proper" green, not red, lol):

Heater:
http://www.amp-versand.com/Schlecht...-Fu-waermer/Relags-Taschenofen-Holzkohle.html

Coal rods:
http://www.amp-versand.com/Schlecht...und-Fu-waermer/Relags-Holzkohlestaebchen.html

Perhaps I can find something in the UK, but you have to give me fifteen minutes

 

[Oarsnpaddle]

Found it!

I did a google search (without the "") with the terms "charcoal hand-warmer site:uk", and this is what came up:

http://www.google.dk/search?ie=UTF-...vclient&gfns=1&q=charcoal+hand-warmer+site:uk

And ignoring the forum links this is the first few sites:

http://www.singersoutdoors.co.uk/catalogue/handwarmer-pocket-charcoal-fuel-rods-p1678.asp

http://www.outdoorgear.co.uk/eshop.asp?wci=product&wce=36901601

http://www.americangolf.co.uk/golf-...ccessories/masters-charcoal-hand-warmer-case/

http://www.premiercampingsupplies.c...ch-uses-charcoal-solid-fuel-sticks-p-275.html

 

[Fin]

Some good stuff already said and your kit list looks fine except you mentioned food and drink "for the day" - pack enough for at least three days at this time of year - especially where you plan to go. Couscous is my food of choice on this sort of expo - lightweight, nutritious and a little goes a long way. Most supermarkets now do excellent flavoured varieties with dried veggies included and they'll weigh next to nothing in your pack. Take along a few beef oxo cubes as well - a potential life saver if your feeling miserable in the cold.

You mentioned that you were both competent navigators and you, in particular, would be happy to" bimble along known paths" - that sets the alarm bells ringing with me! With our recent and current weather you really have to be happy walking on a bearing in poor visibility - especially in high country.

"Two's up " camping in this weather is always more favourable and be prepared to get very friendly with your mate should the need arise (Norway 1995/ Naked in a sleeping bag with Tommo - I still don't like to think about it!)

I'll reiterate what others have said here - you need to reach an agreement with your "macho" friend - whenever you feel uncomfortable - you need to stop, set up camp, get something hot on the go and chill (probably the wrong word in this weather, but you get my drift). As a guide, at this time of year, you want to be stopping at about 3:00pm to set up.

Tell everyone where you're going, your intended route etc and take along your mobile phone, fully charged with a spare battery if possible - a power monkey is good for these sort of trips. I would also give a cut off time to friends/ relatives - i.e. "if we're not back by such and such a time - then call the emergency services"

Don't underestimate mountains, especially at this time of year - the adventure can turn into an ordeal in seconds - you've plenty of warm kit in your list - make sure it's dry and in the survival hierarchy think shelter, shelter shelter.

Hope this helps.

Fin

 

[bojit]

As Fin said well charged mobile phone , but try to keep it close to your body as the lithium ion batteries don`t like getting to cold .
just when you need it in a hurry it might not turn on , same goes for camera batteries the cold will reduce the amount of pics you can take.

Craig..........

 

[rik_uk3]

Sleep two in a tent
Eat, eat, eat and drink, drink loads, take more food than you think you need, in this weather your body will jomp up the calories.
Make sure you know where you are going, tell others when you are leaving and your route, tell them when you return.
If your new to the Beacons be aware that he weather can change in the blink of an eye. If you as beginners find you need crampons then turn back because you are out of your safety zone.
Stick to paths, if you can tag along with another group.
Don't camp wild, use a site, there are a few there and its safer.
If your hiking away from your camp take a flask of hot fluid, tea/soup/chocolate or a stove (not a wood burner really this time of the year) and brew kit. If your new to the hills in winter you don't want to be flaffing about getting a twig burner going in the snow.

Have a great weekend. I'll be up the Red Lion or The Lamb in Penderyn Sunday afternoon for a beer as it happens

 

[johnboy]

Hi,

I'd start with looking at the weather forecast for the weekend and plan around that. Not a lot of point in planning a route taking in the tops if there is going to be 50K winds and snow forecast.

Taking the weather into account plan a route that encompasses your skills and experience equipment and fitness levels.

Leave clear intentions with a responsible person before you go and stick to your intentions. There is no point leaving details of a route with someone if you then arrive change plans and then get into problems. Folk looking for you would be looking in the wrong spot. Phone the person you left the intentions with to let them know your finished your walk.

Definately take plenty to eat and drink . If you are camping up high and everything is frozen consider you might need to melt snow for water and this needs extra fuel.

 

[rik_uk3]

Just looked at the weekend forecast, -1 to -10, add windchill and its way way colder. I would think very hard about going in these condition to be honest, no harm in waiting for better weather after you have developed hill walking skills. Tramping across very open hillsides is a different ball game from camping in the woods even in summer and this time of year is harder still. Please give the trip some thought.