Another dumb squirrel verdict

[trail2]

[/QUOTE]More worryingly to me it fuels the fire of the animal rights campaigners. Now the RSPCA have a conviction on these grounds they are likely to press for more, while other more militant groups use it as justification for their actions. This is one of the risks of our legal system. An ill-advised person's admission of guilt or a judge with an agenda can slowly erode the common sense basis behind a law. Bit by bit we lose the spirit of the law and all suffer for it.[/QUOTE]

This was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Paul_B]

A judge has accepted the plea and this is now case law and a precedent HAS been set. In the same way the case in the 1990's set the precedent that a lock knife is considered to be the same as a fixed blade, this case has accepted that the mans actions were illegal. As such it can be cited in future cases and used as justification for arrests.

It is a prosecution risk for those daft enough (or ignorant) to do the same thing.

More worryingly to me it fuels the fire of the animal rights campaigners. Now the RSPCA have a conviction on these grounds they are likely to press for more, while other more militant groups use it as justification for their actions. This is one of the risks of our legal system. An ill-advised person's admission of guilt or a judge with an agenda can slowly erode the common sense basis behind a law. Bit by bit we lose the spirit of the law and all suffer for it.

Didn't know that the law and common sense necessarily went together all the time anyway. As far as case law goes and it becoming common action it does not follow. Just because one case had this there might be over 100 other similar cases where the opposite judgement has resulted. Which outcome is followed can depend on the arguments and the judge involved. Indeed a case might never make court. There are probably numerous cases where one outcome has been forgotten, ignored or negated by argument or subsequent legal decisions. There can be an argument that some people are making a mountain out of a molehill by saying that this guy has been prosecuted then everyone who traps or controls vermin can be prosecuted on the back of just one case.

 

[daveO]

It seems like they just made it a harsh sentence and high fine to make an example of him, in this case he's just unlucky to be the one with his head on the block. If anything I think the RSPCA took it too far stating that all trapped sqirrels should be taken to the vet to be put down. I guess they have to be seen to make a stance though to raise awareness of their opinions on the matter. They can't exactly turn around and say 'put it in a sack and beat it to death' or something. Even shooting it in the trap opens them up to problems if someone gets hit by a miss and rebound.

Maybe if they spent less time doing stuff like this though they'd actually save some animals now and then...

 

[Paul_B]

Animal rights activists will always do what they want and will always find justifications for their actions. This case has not changed or seriously affected this.

One thing noone has said is the man's right to plead sa he feels fit. Also whether in pleading guilty the man had the right legal advice. Also, for all the arguments here, isn't it a case he has to think about his own situation and make the best decision for himself and that is his right. This has been the outcome but since we don't have all the facts who's to say this wasn't his best option. If as mentioned the guy is a low paid worker then who knows if a not guilty plea might have still resulted in a fine but a greater one. Perhaps that was his legal advice but the £1500 fine was greater than his legal representative's expectation for a guilty plea. Perhaps he was expecting a smaller fine.

All supposition of course but the central idea is that he has made a decision that is his right. Who's to say that you wouldn't do the same. Without facts to contradict this how can you not be sure it was the best decision? Also without facts proving that the implications you are fretting over is happening I hold that those molehills are getting rather big, think one might be with permanent snow on the top.

 

[Matt.S]

Suffice it to say, persuing this prosecution is completely in line with my perception of the RSPCA, which is not the perception they wish to engender in the general population.

 

[crwydryny]

personally my experience of live wild animals caught in traps tells me this guy probably made the best choice given the situation, not saying it was morally right or wrong just if I was in the same situation I'd probably do the same, I've had enough experience with cornered wild animals to know even the small cute furry ones can be vicious little demons. that said if I was setting traps I'd atleast have my rifle with me while checking them especially if the trap was designed to catch them alive.

to be honnest i agree with the RSPCA in general as even as a hunter I do not like to see animals suffer but that said drownding takes all of a minuet at most, which is more humane than some methods I've heard people use.
one personal example years ago I used to raise turkeys for christmas dinner, one year we had 3or 4 left over because people had cancled their orders so we figured we'd keep them and kill them for their meat through the year. 3 months down the line they all get an infection resulting in their heads swelling up with 3-4 lumps each (one was so swollen he couldn't lift his head) the nearest vet to where I live is 30-45 minuets away depending on traffic and since we don't have a car that's not an option so we decided to put them down, my first attempt was to shoot them with teh rifle. even after 4 shots at point blank range with the rifle it was still alive. well I quickly realised shooting them wasn't working and would probably cause more suffering (assuming it was suffering as it continued to eat it's food as I put the rifle down) I then grabbed my knife and decided that was the better option (luckly I keep my knife very sharp) taking their heads off with one clean cut each, granted the RSPCA would probably have some words to say about that since they appear to be opposed to anything more harsh than petting an animal but in my eyes sometime the RSPCA approved method isn't always the best, and given the option between letting an animal suffer needlesly or dispatching it with whatever I have available I'd take the latter no matter what that entales.
but those are just my oppinions

 

[rommy]

One thing noone has said is the man's right to plead sa he feels fit. Also whether in pleading guilty the man had the right legal advice. Also, for all the arguments here, isn't it a case he has to think about his own situation and make the best decision for himself and that is his right.

Like I said earlier, the Rspca advised the court that the Grey Squirrel was a protected species!! Perhaps stuff like that made the bloke feel that he was on a hiding to nothing?? As stated a good solicitor would have got him off easily. Regards, Geoff.

 

[rommy]

And so the plot thickens!!! Geoff.

http://www.karoo.co.uk/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=N0284861281619352656A&category=UK

 

[JonathanD]

And so the plot thickens!!! Geoff.

http://www.karoo.co.uk/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=N0284861281619352656A&category=UK

This is sligtly worrying...

Mr Atthey, a married grandfather-of-four from Ulgham, Northumberland, said: "I submerged this grey squirrel for a few seconds in the water and it was dead within 30 seconds. Of approximately 250 greys that I have killed it has been the quickest method. Normally it can take one to three minutes."

One to three minutes! Whats he doing, bringing them slowly to the boil or pushing them out of a plane.

 

[rommy]

One to three minutes! Whats he doing, bringing them slowly to the boil or pushing them out of a plane.

We'll soon see - the Rspca will have to bring their big guns out now. But I think they will lose this one - I'll even bet the original sentence will be quashed on appeal.

 

[Peter_t]

im not too keen on the respa, it seems to me that most of them seem to be living in some sort of deam world where everything lives in harmony.

cats for example are extreamly cruel to birds and kill thousands of them regardless of species but they get away with it???

someones kills a squirrel in a way that they feel upsetting and gets all this flack even though they are not native and cause problems?

i just don't get it.



pete

 

[Dangerous Dave]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm a vegan (read as freak). But that is because i personally wouldnt be prepared to kill an animal unless my life depended on it. However if someone is willing too kill an animal(s) to eat or for pest control then thats them i have no problem with that. However it is right that he is prosocuted, there must be more humane ways of killing an animal (for example breaking its neck swiftly and cleanly, or slitting its throat.
Just my $00.02
not judging anyone

 

[The Big Lebowski]

Not that i condone the actions of the individual... i agree any animal killed as vermin, or meat should be dispatched 'humanley'- and i activley hunt and fish to-date.

Its a funny old world we live in now though. gone are the days of being presented with an air-rifle on your 10th birthday, now armed response units turn up because someone seen children playing 'cowboys and not cowboys' with plastic guns.

People stand in que's as local delli butchers hoping for the freshest organic neck of lamb, because its in the new jamie oliver book...
but try to sue a community farm for 'trauma' because a chicken had the stupidity to run under a tractor as it carried familys around.

i witnesses kittens being drowned as a child- to be put down, lost pet cats to snares having two collars returned by farmers and have many memories of 'questionable' tacktics working as a gamekeepers assistant in my late teens.

we called it life back then if i remember.

appol's if i've drifted slightly off topic, but i do really sometimes wonder where its all going!

waffle over.

 

[_mark_]

Humane is not normally a word associated with killing.

Where is the line drawn? glue traps, snares, both legal and widely implemented and inhumane; a misplaced round that injures rather than kills? The approximately 60,000 livestock slaughtered daily. I would never call any of it humane, if you have been in an abattoir you know the fear is palpable. I am not an activist, I kill things and the act itself is inhumane, I just accept it.

 

[The Big Lebowski]

maybe 'humane' was the wrong choice of wording... but its one the majority of people have some kind of understanding about.

effectivley/swiftly/with minimum suffering (apart from the whole concept of whats actually being commited you could argue).

the end result is the same no-less.

i cant say i've given the word more than a brief tought before, thats an interesting point.

TBL.

 

[Colin.W]

I must say the actual killing is the part I have always found hardest. game such as pheasant rabbit hare etc. shot with the trusty 12 guage no problem its (nearly always) dead by the time I've reached it to tuck it into the bag, fish likewise easy, a swift smack across the back of the head. it's the animals that I catch alive cause me the dilemma. do I bring my hatchet down across the back of it's neck shoot it in the head at point blank range. or any number of other "quick" methods ending its life. I only kill if it is going in the pot or I'm asked to help with eliminating a pest problem but I do have a desire to end the animals life as quickly and painlessly as possible