The Law Knives sharp objects etc,,,,

[bushmansoton]

Hi everyone I have read some articles and the law and I went to the police station to ask about knives the law on the knives.... I was told that I am only allowed to carry a 3inch folding non locking knife and I have to provide a reason to carry one,,, for bushcraft purposes this seems a little bit hardcore What I read in the article is that if you have a good reason for carrying any knife it should be ok but now here comes the examples : If I am going into the woods on a private land and I am carrying a 6inch knife for constructing shelter purposes and I have the permission this is ok right? What If I am going into a land that I dont have any knowlage about, but I know there are woods of some sort for example I found them on google earth or I am traveling and I need one for constructing shelters etc If I was stopped by the police or of some sort forest guard... How is it with national park, new forest, dartmoor snowdonia, or lake district ??? Can anyone help me because woman at the police station didn't seem to be very nice.... Thank You

 

[Wayland]

Welcome to the forum.

This is a bit of a mine field and it is unfortunately quite common for the boys (and girls) in blue to be a bit vague and uncertain about the laws as they stand.

There is an article that might help here but the truth is that every situation will be dealt with by different officers that may apply different judgement calls so no one can give you "definitive" advice beyond the letter of the law I'm afraid.

Hope that helps.

 

[Siberianfury]

i think some coppers are happy to dull up the laws in order to take you in
to be honest though mate, your unlikley to be arrested in a forest, and a ranger would probably be carrying a similar tool.
i carry fixed blades a fair bit and ive never been stopped

 

[mart]

I thought that you didnt need any reason to carry one if it was non locking and under three inches. Bigger than three inches and / or locking, then you need to provide a reason. Couldnt say for certain though. Where you are and what you are doing would be of major concern, also what kind of mood PC plod's in at the time cause a lot comes down to the individual ocifer. Search online for the relevant act of parliment if you are really concerned mate.

Biggest factor at the moment is..
Knives are the current media constructed problem,
as in
Pit bull
Hoody
joyrider
ect
ect
ect.....

 

[Rob]

It really depends on the policeman who stops you.

There is a crazy amount of public hysteria surrounding knives. You still have to take your chances, but in reality if you have a genuine reason for it then you should be ok. Saying that, the SAR group that I work with have been told to go for the sub 3" non-locker - something that I happily ignore and await the launch of the boat troop next year - where you will have to have a decent knife at hand for rescue purposes.

If your tool is stashed in your bag or in the boot of your car (out of immediate reach) then there should not be an issue on the way there / back. A lot of this will be because nobody will see the knife.

In general, the Police are pretty good. I had my kit pulled by customs / the police recently as it was being shipped back from south america. They were concerned about the contents (mainly the sharps - including machettes) but were cool after we had a chat. In fact, I think I scored some training for them

Be aware of the law and act sensibly and within it. The more people within this walk of life (including some of the instructors/trainers) get hung up on this, promote the hysteria and make too big a deal of it, the less we see knives as the tools of our trade and the more we demonise them. One step closer to plastic cuttlery.

 

[Westnorfolk]

this site will give you all you need to know

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/index.php
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8336

dave

 

[Urban_Dreamer]

Can anyone help me because woman at the police station didn't seem to be very nice....

There are many reasons for this.

For one thing it is not uncommon for CPO's to turn up on the box either lying, or demonstrating their ignorance by claiming that "These knives (points to knives) are illegal". Usually the knives themselves are quite legal, it's the actions of their owners that were illegal.

Either by carrying a knife without good reason that could be judged to be a offensive weapon, or making it clear that they carry it as a offensive weapon.

She may also have thought that you were seeking to obey the letter of the law while avoiding the spirit.

In fact, while the law books say that a folding knife with a cutting edge of less than 3" is not to be assumed to be a offensive weapon, it doesn't say that you can't be charged and convicted for carrying one AS a offensive weapon.

As others have said, common sense will go far. If stopped declare all your sharps. Have a good reason (not excuse) if you are carry any fixed bladed or locking knife (locking knifes are case law). Don't go out for a night on the town or to a football match with a knife in your pocket, even a small folder.

Remember you can argue your case in court but it may not go your way unless you can convince others that you were acting responsibly and within the law.

 

[Rebel]

I recommend that you read the other threads as we have gone over this subject in great detail both here and on British Blades.

One thing you will find is that often individual police aren't fully aware of the laws about knives. I've been to anti-crime meetings were the speaker has made inaccurate statements about the knife laws as they stand.

With the current climate about knives it does make things difficult for us who want to obey the law but still use our knives for legitimate tasks to know where we stand. Even so I've never been bothered or searched by police, fortunately, despite what the media says, I think most police have some common sense and if we use some too we should be okay. Now some of the PCSOs I've met are another story.

 

[BigShot]

Some good posts above.

I'd summarise the situation thus:

You CAN carry a folding pocket knife (defined as a non-locking blade with a cutting edge no longer than 3 inches*) without "good reason" provided you do not intend to use it as a weapon**. (Though it would be illegal in some places, airports and football stadia being a couple.)
The chances of being searched are generally low, though some are searched more than others and sometimes they don't fit any criminal profiles (I certainly don't and have been searched a fair bit).
Even carrying a sub 3" non-locking folder you could be arrested purely for possessing it if the wrong cop has a bad day and picks you to take it out on.

As for having good reason to carry something outside those parameters (longer than 3", locking or fixed blades***) things aren't so clear.
Section 139 of the Criminal Justic Act subsection 4 is the relevant legislation here.
It says in VERY general terms having good reason is a defence.
It seems to me that bushcraft is the very definition of a good reason... however the legality of camping and making shelters without the landowner's permission may not help your case if you were (for some bizarre reason) searched by the police in such a situation and found to be carrying a fixed blade knife. Fishing would be good reason to carry (say) a filleting knife - it wouldn't be good reason to carry a Machete or a Bowie Knife. Much depends on your demeanour and behaviour though.


* To be on the safe side I make it a touch less - I've got a 3" knife I love but won't carry because it's right on the limit and I don't want to take my chances.
** A newspaper can be an offensive weapon if you intend to use it as one.
*** In case law locking and fixed blades are effectively one and the same.


This entire post (as all those above) come, of course, with an important caveat.
We are not legal advisors and this is not legal advice. We won't be the magistrate you're hauled before by that copper having a bad day and nothing we've said will help you in that case. In that case it'll just be you, your counsel and the law against the CPS.

 

[Morning Fox]

This doesn't help the OP but just a rant, the moment the laws took away our right to have a fire and carry a knife is the moment they took away our humanity. These things are primal and are a very part of our soul as humans. Sad days we are in. I completely understand the reasons for the laws because unfortunately there are a lot of brain dead morons around that have ruined it for the rest of us. Such is life though eh.

 

[durulz]

This doesn't help the OP but just a rant, the moment the laws took away our right to have a fire and carry a knife is the moment they took away our humanity. These things are primal and are a very part of our soul as humans. Sad days we are in. I completely understand the reasons for the laws because unfortunately there are a lot of brain dead morons around that have ruined it for the rest of us. Such is life though eh.

So, are you saying that EVERYONE in the UK should have the right to start a fire if they wish? All 65 million of us?
If that were the case, and we all decided to exercise that right, there wouldn't be many trees left to camp amongst.
You have to look at the bigger picture some times, and not just your navel.

 

[Morning Fox]

So, are you saying that EVERYONE in the UK should have the right to start a fire if they wish? All 65 million of us?
If that were the case, and we all decided to exercise that right, there wouldn't be many trees left to camp amongst.
You have to look at the bigger picture some times, and not just your navel.

Everyone has the right to forage for berries and yet I still see thousands on my travels Just because everyone is allowed to do something it hardly means that everyone does.
So without getting into an argument you are accusing me of being ignorant but maybe you should look at the bigger picture a little yourself.

 

[BigShot]

Durulz - I do see what you're getting at but I'm inclined to agree with MF's response.

We ARE all allowed to paint our house whatever colour we like (exceptions made for a few things like listed buildings and the like) but the average street isn't rainbow coloured.
We can spend all the time we like in public parks but most don't.
We can all wild camp on Dartmoor, in Scotland and above the intake walls in the lakes (not a "right" but still), yet most don't.

The same logic is what's kept the public off "the land" for generations. "If the land's open to anyone who wants to walk there it'll be a disaster".

Another more relevant point to the thread.
Everyone has the right to carry a sub 3" non-locking folder and those of us who do are almost certainly in a minority, probably quite a small one by comparison.

Right doesn't translate to everyone doing it, or even close to everyone.

 

[bushmansoton]

Tahak you this exaplains everything,,, I just wasn't sure if that is right

 

[Hugo]

I won't take out a fixed blade now because of the new laws.
I'm going back to a 3 inch folding one, boring I know.
Can't do with the hassle of being stopped and reported.
Going to grind my larger knife down to make a Three inch one as well.
I once had a flick knife when I was a school boy, got in France on a day trip.
I never had trouble being stopped with that, but it was nearly Fifty years ago.

 

[Urban_Dreamer]

I once had a flick knife when I was a school boy, got in France on a day trip.
I never had trouble being stopped with that, but it was nearly Fifty years ago.

Tut-tut.

Though it could have been quite legal. After all they were only made illegal 40 years ago.

As it happens I once quite legally owned a flick knife. Yes, you guessed it. I Inherited one bought before they were made illegal.

Back to the subject, I recall, less than 10 years ago meeting a pair of cops in some woods while wearing a sheaf knife. They asked if I has seen some youths riding scooters without helmets and totally ignored the knife upon my belt and the one that I was using to prepare food. Just goes to show, doesn't it.

I do confess though that I'm concerned that it is getting more and more unacceptable to transport your tools (sharps) by public transport to where you will use them and back again.

 

[WDBurns]

Years ago i had a night cleaning job in a supermarket. I used to do a little shopping before the store closed and i started my shift. One night i brought a baguette and carried it home in my back pack after work in the early hours. I was stopped by the law and searched. They told me that they thought i was carrying a shotgun