Survival tin --- what should a good one contain?

[sargey]

There is a lot of talk here about the 'the best daysack' type of thing, I have always thought of my daysack or indeed rucksack as my 'survival kit.

The teacher at School who took us so often up to Snowdonia drummed into us that you must carry some kit with you, even on a day hike, whistle, torch, map, compass, spare clothes, plastic bivvy bag (this was 40 years ago), food of some sort etc, and perhaps this kind of 'conditioning' has remained with me and why I'm so sceptical of these small survival kits.

um yep. as far as hillside survival goes, that's the way forwards.... even now, i never drive out of town without have a GOAT bag in my car. thats Going On A Trip. a day/rucksack packed for a weekend away. it's a bit like a bugout bag, only it's a GOAT bag.

dave made a point earlier about fixing stuff when away from home or somesuch... the best successes i've had with survival tins have actually been to do with fit lasses in the office having the zip on their skirts packing up. i've been able to save the day with a bit of sewing kit and or safety pins on a couple of different occaisions

i have also been on a couple of high class minimalist bushcraft courses where they have "poo-pooed" the whole survival tin issue. my take on it is that the survival tin provides the bridge between now and a few days time.

should you decide to walk out of your house with just the contents of your pockets for a bushcraft expedition or somehow get separated from your rucksack on holiday overseas, it takes a wee while to get a decent shelter and stuff togther, it takes a wee while to find and harvest the right wood to make a bow drill. it takes a wee while to harvest and prepare tinder that'll work with that bow drill set. it takes a wee while to whittle/burn a cook pot. it takes a wee while to make fish hooks and line from natural materials. all that put togther takes a fair few days. with a PSK it could take less than an afternoon. yes, the contents of the kit will be largely worn out or used up after a few days. but then you'll have had time to knit some string and whittle some replacement fishhooks.

i used to carry what i called a "utility/logistics" pouch with basic brew kit, firelighting kit, firstaid kit, mozzie rep, toilet stuff and so on. i carried this lot around for a couple of decades, in some very wild and wooly parts of the planet. it all served me very well indeed. then bushcraft was invented and it became a possibles pouch! the concepts are the same irrespective of what you want them to be called.

remember bushcraft is about looking past the obvious and seeing the possibilities.

cheers, and.

 

[rik_uk3]

um yep. as far as hillside survival goes, that's the way forwards.... even now, i never drive out of town without have a GOAT bag in my car. thats Going On A Trip. a day/rucksack packed for a weekend away. it's a bit like a bugout bag, only it's a GOAT bag.

dave made a point earlier about fixing stuff when away from home or somesuch... the best successes i've had with survival tins have actually been to do with fit lasses in the office having the zip on their skirts packing up. i've been able to save the day with a bit of sewing kit and or safety pins on a couple of different occaisions

i have also been on a couple of high class minimalist bushcraft courses where they have "poo-pooed" the whole survival tin issue. my take on it is that the survival tin provides the bridge between now and a few days time.

should you decide to walk out of your house with just the contents of your pockets for a bushcraft expedition or somehow get separated from your rucksack on holiday overseas, it takes a wee while to get a decent shelter and stuff togther, it takes a wee while to find and harvest the right wood to make a bow drill. it takes a wee while to harvest and prepare tinder that'll work with that bow drill set. it takes a wee while to whittle/burn a cook pot. it takes a wee while to make fish hooks and line from natural materials. all that put togther takes a fair few days. with a PSK it could take less than an afternoon. yes, the contents of the kit will be largely worn out or used up after a few days. but then you'll have had time to knit some string and whittle some replacement fishhooks.

i used to carry what i called a "utility/logistics" pouch with basic brew kit, firelighting kit, firstaid kit, mozzie rep, toilet stuff and so on. i carried this lot around for a couple of decades, in some very wild and wooly parts of the planet. it all served me very well indeed. then bushcraft was invented and it became a possibles pouch! the concepts are the same irrespective of what you want them to be called.

remember bushcraft is about looking past the obvious and seeing the possibilities.

cheers, and.

Good post, I go with much of what you say. The 'possibles' pouch certainly instead of the tin for sure, room for your mobile phone, credit card, GPS and other useful bits and pieces. Talking of bits and pieces, I forgot my little MP3 on a trip last year and really missed it, how sad is that That said, I've taken a little radio on all my trips this last 40+ years and its at the point where its now essential kit for me.

Etre Pret - always Sargey

 

[crazydave]

The problem with making a 'baccy-tin survival-kit' is that you have started off by specifying the container, thereafter limiting your choices as to the content.

Surely it is best to select your items first and then decide on a suitable container?

One reason often quoted for the use of the baccy tin is the ability to boil water for a brew, has anyone here ever made themselves a decent brew in a baccy tin???

the baccy tin kit was a recent adaptation based on cost, if you read up on mi9 then the kits they sent out were pretty cool as they had gold in them and were based on water bottles. originally it was for a small amount of gear which was prepacked so you couldn't forget anything and was two tins not one, one for each pocket. the contents served a dual purpose of keeping you alive and helping you evade. the USROG advocate a similar style. the main point with the tins is that its packed so you know what you have access to at any given time provided its in your pocket. the drawback is people chuck them in their bags instead which means they lose their potential.

as to making a brew - the tin takes a cupfull which is still better than nothing. try it.

the possibles pouch sounds similar to the pouch survival kit which is meant to be a step up from the tin so would have a torch, cord, sweets, etc,, normally based around a mess tin so you could have a bigger brew. if you do a jungle trek they like you to have belt order of two pouches, one with survival kit one with a water bottle and a knife/machete which never leaves you. the idea being that should you lose your bag you can still cope. unfortunately from what I read the possibles pouch is more about having a leather bag than whats in it.

up in snowdonia a few weeks back and one of the groups down while i was waiting for the kids had a woman who had been swept into the river off some stepping stones and lost her daysack in the process. her companions wrung her out and got her down to the toilets where she dried off under the dryers drinking hot chocolate from the cafe. admitedly the weather was so horrible a tin would have been of minimal use till she could have got down to some more sheltered areas but probably more use than the phone in her pocket was likely to be.

accidents happen so like sargey says - etre pret.

 

[rik_uk3]

But if her mate had a mobile (most people do carry them) they could call for help, and she could roll up a fag from her tin of baccy and have a smoke while waiting for help to arrive

 

[deeps]

....the main thing I do notice is the desire for bushcrafting to be something superduper special and in no way related to anything else, the hostility to survival tins seems to be linked to the hostility towards survival as a subject which crops up continuously and not the need for a usefull bit of just in case kit, maybe a thread should be started as to what a bushcraft tin should contain? as I would find that interesting. sorry make that possibles pouch. cant say I've even had a cup of tea made in leather drawstring bag but I'm open to new experiences

heres one http://www.greenmanbushcraft.co.uk/survival-kits/bcb-bushcraft-trekkers-survival-tin.htm

and heres another http://www.greenmanbushcraft.co.uk/survival-kits/bushcraft-mountain-survival-tin.htm

and would you believe it, they look just like ........'survival tins'

 

[rik_uk3]

heres one http://www.greenmanbushcraft.co.uk/survival-kits/bcb-bushcraft-trekkers-survival-tin.htm

and heres another http://www.greenmanbushcraft.co.uk/survival-kits/bushcraft-mountain-survival-tin.htm

and would you believe it, they look just like ........'survival tins'

Deeps, what is in that kit that will help you survive? I'll be specific, help you survive in the UK? I don't mean high up in the Munro's of Scotland, but in general terms. Fill the tin with boiled sweets and you would at least have a good energy kick start. The rest you would or should be on or about you?

 

[deeps]

Tend to agree with you there Rik for general bimbling about in UK - twas a tongue in cheek post drawing attention to rebadging of basically the same kit.

I shall reread an old copy of Just William, his pocket contents should suffice
........bag of gobstoppers covered in fluff, pen knife, string, catapult, magnifying glass, thrupenny piece, matchbox, handkerchief........hmm not far off the mark.

Hoorah for the outlaws - the first bushcrafters ?

 

[crazydave]

again though its more use as a repair kit which is what most of the kit is good for like tape, thread, needles, plasters etc..

barbed wire does not discriminate those trousers it tears the crotch out of and the top trouser button does not always stay in place on its own accord.

took someone elses dofe kids out on a weekend expedition nr whitby and spent nearly three hours resewing adult sized rucsack waistbands to fit skinny teenagers. used a whole roll of dental floss. I'd packed light so didn't take the usual sewing kit with me. used the brass wire to repair alloy tent poles on occasion as well as duct taping ember burns on tent flysheets. I've even used the wire saw on a particular nasty plumbing job with crappy access. on holiday it can be one of the most usefull things you pack along with your multitool.

its a day to day item if you want it to be. thats how survival skills work, as you need them not just when the world collapses.

people are chatting about the survivors series and how usefull or useless the characters are. this depends on their basic knowledge of everything and whether they can apply it to the situation to make best adavntage of it.

most survival kit has been rebadged as bushcraft by poeple who want to make a sale to a newer gullible public and you only have to look at ebay where it covers everything from underwear to gas cookers. its all about money at the end of the day from its conception to sell tv, books and courses to the inclusion of traditional crafts and skills.

so far I havent seen a set of titanium bushcraft knitting needles in a leather pouch but now I've put the idea up there someone will make one along with instructions for a paracord vest

 

[rik_uk3]

again though its more use as a repair kit which is what most of the kit is good for like tape, thread, needles, plasters etc..

barbed wire does not discriminate those trousers it tears the crotch out of and the top trouser button does not always stay in place on its own accord.

took someone elses dofe kids out on a weekend expedition nr whitby and spent nearly three hours resewing adult sized rucsack waistbands to fit skinny teenagers. used a whole roll of dental floss. I'd packed light so didn't take the usual sewing kit with me. used the brass wire to repair alloy tent poles on occasion as well as duct taping ember burns on tent flysheets. I've even used the wire saw on a particular nasty plumbing job with crappy access. on holiday it can be one of the most usefull things you pack along with your multitool.

its a day to day item if you want it to be. thats how survival skills work, as you need them not just when the world collapses.

people are chatting about the survivors series and how usefull or useless the characters are. this depends on their basic knowledge of everything and whether they can apply it to the situation to make best adavntage of it.

most survival kit has been rebadged as bushcraft by poeple who want to make a sale to a newer gullible public and you only have to look at ebay where it covers everything from underwear to gas cookers. its all about money at the end of the day from its conception to sell tv, books and courses to the inclusion of traditional crafts and skills.

so far I havent seen a set of titanium bushcraft knitting needles in a leather pouch but now I've put the idea up there someone will make one along with instructions for a paracord vest

You can't live with a rip in your trousers this time of year in most of the UK?

Someone will make Titanium needles no doubt, to go with the ultra light Titanium tent pegs and mugs. What sort of good food can you cook in a 750ml Titanium mug/pot for crying out loud? Heat a rat pack meal or boil some noodles? If thats all you want from a trip then fine, if you treat food as just as a fuel source for the body then fine, but do the grammes saved versus the extortionate price justify itself? Sorry, no IMHO. Its just more suckers being led by the nose down the 'must have kit' route towards wearing the 'look at me I'm a bushcrafter' uniform

 

[crazydave]

You can't live with a rip in your trousers this time of year in most of the UK?

Someone will make Titanium needles no doubt, to go with the ultra light Titanium tent pegs and mugs. What sort of good food can you cook in a 750ml Titanium mug/pot for crying out loud? Heat a rat pack meal or boil some noodles? If thats all you want from a trip then fine, if you treat food as just as a fuel source for the body then fine, but do the grammes saved versus the extortionate price justify itself? Sorry, no IMHO. Its just more suckers being led by the nose down the 'must have kit' route towards wearing the 'look at me I'm a bushcrafter' uniform

well I'm not sure how they do things in walescestershire but round here they get upset if go down the pub with your bits dangling loose - allthough it does improve the sales of pork scratchings for some reason.

OOOh! carefull or you'll be getting hatemail I guess that like me you're also waiting for the double layer ventile drybag to make an appearance

 

[abushcrafter]

How about the question of a better description + name/labels for the "Standard Bushy Kit" Which is simply the usual stuff we carry and maybe the odd thing and most important of all Knowledge, wisdom plus the vital bush/nature listening skill finally actual common-sense with not being evil

Possible names/labels to use? :

• backup kit
• oopsy daisy kit
• vital bits kit
• What Ever You Call It Kit
• Standard Bushy Kit

:Thinkingo

 

[Geuf]

All this talk about PSK's is nice and all. I come across them very often on different forums, or in talks with different people. And I must admit, I love to make them for friends, keep improving mine and think about what you would need and what not.

But, I ask you this: How often you have heard of a person that's gotten lost, or lost his/her backpack and fortunately had a PSK with him or her. And because of this, that person survived, or at least had it a little bit easier surviving untill rescued. Has anybody ever heard of this? Accounts of stories like these? I would really like to know.

 

[rik_uk3]

well I'm not sure how they do things in walescestershire but round here they get upset if go down the pub with your bits dangling loose - allthough it does improve the sales of pork scratchings for some reason.

OOOh! carefull or you'll be getting hatemail I guess that like me you're also waiting for the double layer ventile drybag to make an appearance

In Wales its common practise to use underwear and not go 'commando'


"Geuf wrote
All this talk about PSK's is nice and all. I come across them very often on different forums, or in talks with different people. And I must admit, I love to make them for friends, keep improving mine and think about what you would need and what not.

But, I ask you this: How often you have heard of a person that's gotten lost, or lost his/her backpack and fortunately had a PSK with him or her. And because of this, that person survived, or at least had it a little bit easier surviving untill rescued. Has anybody ever heard of this? Accounts of stories like these? I would really like to know.
Reply With Quote"

Geuf, it does'nt happen in most of the UK anyway. These tins have a place I guess if your a pilot who gets shot down, as your not likely to be carrying the bits and pieces any good camper/hillwaker will these days.

This is a good tin to carry (my local pound shop sells these from time to time, two tins for a quid)

http://www.1stopsweets.co.uk/acatalog/SKY_CANDY_BERRY_200g_TIN_PACK_24.html

 

[h2o]

Survival tins are ok if you just keep fire lighting stuff an add a small knife in em,But i dont see the point in fishing kits and snare wire in the uk.And them saws are turd,

 

[Geuf]

Survival tins are ok if you just keep fire lighting stuff an add a small knife in em,But i dont see the point in fishing kits and snare wire in the uk.And them saws are turd,

I do. Those are for when you actually want to go fishing and have a licence. You can say a lot of things about survivak tins, but one thing is sure. You can add any great, though tiny, piece of kit. Most of the time it'll be for mending stuff. I haven't sealed up mine any more. I just have it packed with me as much as I can and I just use what I need from the contents.
The other day I was re-viewing mine, because I wanted to add something. So I opened it up (unsealed it), and when I did it started me thinking.
Wait, I'll ad my 2 cents. Here it goes.

First of all, let start with the contents:

- about 5 meters of wire
- mini firesteel (crappiest one I ever came across, lol) (works though )
- 10 sealed up storm matches
- 1 sealed up match striker
- 3 different sizes of needles
- about 25 meters of dental floss
- mini compass (only gives rough direction)
- photon light (awesome piece of kit, in general)
- S.O.S. whistle
- 3 safety pins (don't know why!)
- 1 condom
- 3 mini candles ( about 10 to15 mins of burning time each)
- 4 stanley blades.
- 30 meters of fishing line
- fishing hooks kit

The tin:

The contents:

The outragiously large fishing kit:

Now. The fishing kit I have just added. this is because I intend to make this PSK A Possibles Kit. I kinda went ape**** on this one. This is what I was talking about in my reply to H20

Anyway, in general about PSK's:

Getting found

Because I was reviewing mine, it got me thinking. What would be the PSK's main reason of existence (here in western europe) I recon, it's getting found.
Then my next question was: how do you get found?
- Well, first of all, tell other people where you're going. So that you'll be missed if not back on time.
Then, if you get missed/missing, and people start searching for you. how the hell do you get found? (many scenario's can be entered here; lost, broken leg, ill person on the group, not able to move, etc. )
Here the PSK comes in. I think the basic items should be:
-Signaling mirror
- whistle
- the brightes, small torch/led lamp you can find.
- something to make fire with, to keep warm and make signalling smoke with.
All for one reasong: Getting found!

On the move

Step one is about staying put and getting found. This step is about when you have to get moving to get out of your situation. This calls for a good compass. (not the one I got, lol!)
In other words, a divice to help you get your position and bearings more easily.

Protecting your body

this applies to any situation. One neeeeds water. Imo the easiest way to get water without wasting precious time it to have one or two very sturdy zip-lock bags and some purifying tablets. All packed in a small tin with wich you can boil water if you run out of tablets. ( Although this would probably suck badly and take a lot of time, too much time)
So. Water.

Next thing would be fire, or shelter. a way to keep warm when not on the move ( resting or staying put). So matches, a firesteel, a small bic lighter. all would help. all have downsides. I suggest to get at least two ways of firelighting.

Further more; some blades, a small knife. at least something that cuts.
I'm pretty convinced that this doesn't need a lot of explaining, because I haven't heard yet, of a single sole on BCUK that said knives never come in handy

Last priority is food. you could put some wire in there for snares and a few hooks with a prepped night line or just some normal fishing line. All this for setting snares /lines at night, checking them in the morning for example.

Then maybe two, but certainly one of the most important things to carry is: Knowledge acompanied with common sence. (you probably forgot at least one of the two, wich got you in a survival situation in the first place). And something to motivate you (for me this would be a picture of my girlfriend. But maybe a picture of your loved ones, an item that reminds you of somebody, anything that motivates you to get home.

And last, but certainly not least. Wear a cell phone on your person!

My2cents

 

[h2o]

Fair enough Geuf about taking fishing kit if you intend to fish,I dont particulary like fish or the fishing itself.my son fishes he opts for a small tele scopic rod .As for getting found
signalling mirror = silver zippo or knife blade
whistle = i put my lips together and blow
torch=petzyl head lamp or maglite
fire making=the above zippo or the firesteel on my knife sheath

The important item you dont seem to have is good tinder!!!!
how you goona cook youre fish?
The condom is the most silly item ive heard of 2whats wrong with a bottle
And seriously those little torches has anyone been killed by the dark?

You cant beat a bill hook a box of matched and a candle!!!

 

[Geuf]

The tinder is a very good thought H2O.
About the torch, it's about being found in the dark when on the move. Just a signalling device, that's all.
Regarding the bill hook and the water bottle. I've never found one that fits the inner pocket of my jacket

edit: the putting your lips together whistle, doesnt by far come close to what a good old plastic whistle can do. especially when your strength is drained.

 

[h2o]

The tinder is a very good thought H2O.
About the torch, it's about being found in the dark when on the move. Just a signalling device, that's all.
Regarding the bill hook and the water bottle. I've never found one that fits the inner pocket of my jacket

edit: the putting your lips together whistle, doesnt by far come close to what a good old plastic whistle can do. especially when your strength is drained.

Was quite funny though dont you think?

 

[Geuf]

H20, I must say:

 

[Martyn]

Those are for when you actually want to go fishing and have a licence.

Then you would need to fit a rod in your tin too as fishing without one in the UK is called poaching.

Further more; some blades, a small knife. at least something that cuts.
I'm pretty convinced that this doesn't need a lot of explaining, because I haven't heard yet, of a single sole on BCUK that said knives never come in handy

That's of questionable benefit really. The kind of blade you can fit in a small tin, wont be of much use for anything.

Last priority is food. you could put some wire in there for snares and a few hooks with a prepped night line or just some normal fishing line. All this for setting snares /lines at night, checking them in the morning for example.

Fishing and snaring? Possibly in the Netherlands that has merit, but in the UK, if you are thinking about fishing and snaring, your situation is far from "survival". Just walk to the nearest chip shop.