Laws around bushcraft in the UK

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Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
12,330
2,293
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
The talk about the lk-35 is fairly true unfortunately.
A hellish piece of equipment that generations of Swedish enlisted guys hated.

Tent pegs post was quite serious.
Unless you have never spend a night or day in a storm.
 
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mousey

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jun 15, 2010
2,210
254
42
NE Scotland
Yes I agree with bopdude [although if the OP can take the comments with a bit of salt - I found some of them quite funny, not particularly helpful, but funny none the less].

I've never really been into 'bushcraft' as I think of it, I prefer just to go outside for an extended period of time, cook and sleep outside, now I live in scotland I'm allowed to roam where I will [still within reason mind]

I assume you're close to the peak district and the yorkshire dales. In my youth I walked around both and camped unobtrusively with no bother - it was some time ago so don't know how busy it'll be now. It depends really what you want to do, fire's probably not a good thing straight away, don't get hung up on a knife [I still only have one - a cheap mora] get a map and compass, tarp/bivi/tent, sleeping bag, some food, waterproofs and head out. Now's the better time to do it as your less likely to be cold. Let someone know where your going and when you're likely be back, let them know if things change. Take some pictures and let us know of your adventures.
 
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Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
9,959
2,664
McBride, BC
Until you know otherwise, always plan on bringing your own good water.
Live in your house but out of a water bottle. Figure out what you need.

Doesn't matter how simple your camping kit is = get out of the weather and you're fine.
Two tarps are more versatile than one biggie.
I need really elegant tasty food and fantastic coffee. Instant mood changing fodder and lots of it.
Proper nutritional balance is a noble thought best reserved for the kitchen at home.

A pot, a pan, a cup, knife for everything. Fork & spoon. Two very reliable fueled stoves are five times
better than one cranky wood burner.
Field Guides to Animal Tracks or the best handbook of local plant ID that you can find.
Learn your landscape.
 

Harvey Walker

New Member
Jul 27, 2018
3
0
24
West Yorkshire
in england the only place you can camp on open land legally is on dartmoor, obviously people do camp in woods etc, but you need to be covert, fires are no go, get yourself a stove,now it is possible to camp and indeed set a fire on private land providing you have the landowners permission.but on public land or woods be very careful.

So fires could be okay if I'm discreet on public land? I'm not too fussed about fires too much anyway, more about the use of knives/hatchets on wood found on the floor, but I assume this would be okay?
 

Harvey Walker

New Member
Jul 27, 2018
3
0
24
West Yorkshire
Yes, get knives and then show us pictures of the knives. There is not half enough talk here about knives nowadays. :)

Here's a video of one, an Old Hickory 7" butcher ...

And here's a photo of some more. A couple of Serratas ... one in cast 440C and sneezewood, another in VG10 n ebony

Serratas.png

Would these knives be recommended to a beginner like myself?
 

Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
12,330
2,293
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
In the food departement I find that I like something fatty when it is cold. Sour/acidic drops are nice to suck on.
I make my coffee or tea stronger than when indoors, but prefer to boil buds and fliwers for a tasty infusion.


I would recommend you go with somebody that is used to the great outdoors.
Somebody suggested a local BCUK meet - best suggestion so far. Before you go, ask which basic equipment you should get.
At a meet you can borrow stuff to try.
 

Billy-o

Native
Apr 19, 2018
1,981
975
Canada
The way I found my way around in Canadian backcountry was that I was very lucky and fell in with a bunch of archaeologists early on. When pipelines or railways or dams get built for example, that archaeology all needs doing and it is usually kind of in the middle of the bush somewhere. So, not only are the archaeologists sociable souls and very skilled at sustaining themselves outdoors for weeks on end, they also have great things to show you. Birthing rocks, pit house villages etc :) They also know all the law about access, ownership, contested areas and so forth.
 

Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
12,330
2,293
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Would these knives be recommended to a beginner like myself?

Are you a knife novice that has only used knives in the kitchen?
In that case - no.

Traditionally a knife with a blade of about 10-15 cm has been successfully used.

For your first outdoor knife, get a cheap Morakniv, or a clone of one.
Use, abuse, learn.

That knife brand in the picture is a trad US one, decent quality, buy ( as so much coming from America) grossly oversize. Cheap though, so at least you get s lot of knife for your money!
(It is sold and used as a kitchen knife btw.)
 

Billy-o

Native
Apr 19, 2018
1,981
975
Canada
Janne's post is sage. I'd add that after a long time of buying and commissioning cutlery the sheer utility of things takes a second seat. He's also right to say that a knife is like a totem or a jewel that both puts you into and reflects a certain mind set. That is as much its function as its ability to cut effectively. Personally, I never did like Moras, except for their very small carvers, which are frankly unsurpassed for capacity and cost. For years I did fine with a cut down british army bayonet my dad gave me, a navy knife with black plastic scales, a sheepsfoot and marlin, and a boning knife which I don't where from. Gradually lost them and started to cast around looking for better things.

If I were to start again and intended to buy just a few things and no more, that are good, practical and relatively affordable, I'd get a Fallkniven F1 or H1, a Roselli Carpenter, a nice, robust slip joint pocketknife .. maybe a 4 1/4" stockman ... but there are a squillion things to fill in there. Note that if you don't get on with it, you'll get most of your money back on the F1 if you come to sell it. I'd add a light billhook and a folding saw .. though something slightly bigger than the Bahco. The billhook is great for gathering dead wood and splitting it, and other things, the saw is handy for the same and I prefer it for when there is deeper snow around over a metre or so. Always bear in mind other options like a folding bowsaw or even just an 15" panel saw. On any given trip youll only want one or two of these things, though I think someone should have a pocket folder just to be civilized.

Mr Ed is right, you can figure these things out for yourself, and you should, it is where the fun is, and you shouldn't think that any decisions you make are permanent. But, it took me a lot of costly toad kissing to get to this little list. And, the real thing is that these were in fact more or less the first pieces I bought. I should have/could have stopped right there a long time ago. I don't regret for a second the astonishingly well conceived and capable knives I have bought, but If you don't want to start a very expensive cutlery collection, cast around here and see what the options are. This may or may not be controversial to say nowadays, but I don't think much of the conventional bushcraft knife (4" of 4mm O1 with a steep scandinavian grind ... often costly).

I don't know how you are with these things (getting back to the law/lore) but I am not hugely fond of tactical looking stuff, mainly because I think it gives people the wrong idea about you and your intentions. These pieces suggested here (and there plenty more options) look like more or less honest, unchallenging working tools.

(By the way: that Ontario Old Hickory 7" butcher knife is, more or less, a Nessmuk. Not quite the same sweep as other Russell or Old Hickory patterns, but in the ball park)
 
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Wander

Native
Jan 6, 2017
1,418
1,983
Here There & Everywhere
To be quite honest, the first thing you should ask yourself is, 'what do you want a knife for?'
That will help you decide which knife to buy.

I'm not such a knife fetishist, but even I have four knives. And I only use one of them - a Britsh army clasp knife. And it does everything that I, personally, want a knife for. Which isn't a great deal - doing a bit of whittling and carving.
So ask yourself, what do you want to do with a knife (and, even more importantly, have you got permission to do whatever it is you want to do)?

The money you save on a knife you won't use or can't use could be spent on better things.
 
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Billy-o

Native
Apr 19, 2018
1,981
975
Canada
In fact, I think it is the other way round. Often, a knife, like any other piece of well-chosen equipment, will reveal itself to you over time and through use ... there's a lot more people involved in the design of things who know a lot more about the design of things than the user themselves.:):lol:
 

Fadcode

Full Member
Feb 13, 2016
2,857
894
Cornwall
So fires could be okay if I'm discreet on public land? I'm not too fussed about fires too much anyway, more about the use of knives/hatchets on wood found on the floor, but I assume this would be okay?

Lately there has been a spate of heath and woodland fires, some deliberately set, others through lightning etc, what I meant by being discreet is , make sure its safe to start a fire, preferably on a stone base make sure it is enclosed in some way, so it wont be spread by the wind, don,t start a fire on loose earth or peat, make sure you can put it out quickly and safely, and try not to be seen by members of the public, who may think its a wild fire and inform the authorities.

Reference carrying knives and tools, well basically if you have good reason to carry a LEGAL knife then you are entitled to carry one, again be discreet keep knives and axes etc, stashed away in you bag rucksack until you need to use them, (and read up on the relative laws about carrying knives),

Using dead wood on the woodland floor should not be a problem as long as you are discreet, don't go around chopping trees down, and always keep in mind you don't know who owns the dead wood, and you could theoretically be charged with theft or criminal damage on public or private land., Get in touch with local groups, they will tell you where you can go and be safe, there is plenty of moorland and woodland in your area to explore,and I am sure there are regular meetings of local groups to go to.

Don,t go buying loads of equipment, eventually you will discover what you need, go out with the basics it will then be obvious what essentials you require, there is plenty of info on this site regarding what basics you need, but obviously they will not cover everything, but make sure you have food water, shelter, and one good knife, you can make so much with a knife, shelters, tent poles and pegs, preparing food etc etc, a basic £10 Mora will be as good as any knife and if you unfortunately lose it it is cheaply replaced.

Get yourself a good book, I recommend John "Lofty" Wiseman,s SAS Survival Handbook ISBN 0-00-715899-8, either buy one or borrow it from your local Library. Go out and enjoy the peace and tranquillity of the outdoors.
 
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Billy-o

Native
Apr 19, 2018
1,981
975
Canada
Yes, Fadcode makes sounds points re. wood etc. I am not talking about England. I'd add that bringing a sense of the legal constraints to public access in England didn't much help in coming to terms with those in the US and Canada. It's different

Also, I just went to look for a particular folder to recommend here and discovered that Queen Cutlery had closed down in January. That is quite a shock
 
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Janne

Sent off - Not allowed to play
Feb 10, 2016
12,330
2,293
Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
Good point about a stone base for fire.
When I have made a fire when the ground was dry, I always did that. Clear a wide ares from combustible materials, wet the bare ground thoroughly then build a base.

Before you go to sleep or leave the site, wet the fireplace thoroughly.

(Note that in Scandinavia ( if you ever plan to go there for a bit of a real wilderness experience) it is illegal to make fires on exposed bedrock)

I assume that in UK the local authorities issue fire bans from time to time?
If yes, check first if a such ban is in effect!
For me, a fireban = enjoyment of tasty canned food, cold!
 
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C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,355
2,366
Bedfordshire
Moderator hat on.
So fires could be okay if I'm discreet on public land? I'm not too fussed about fires too much anyway, more about the use of knives/hatchets on wood found on the floor, but I assume this would be okay?

Short answer is no, it is not "okay if I'm discreet" any more than it is okay to vandalise, speed or steal so long as no one notices you doing it. I suspect that you know this, and what you are really asking is, how likely are you to get into trouble for doing these things and how can you do them and not get caught.

As has been stated many times before, this forum cannot be seen to condone or encourage breaking the law. You can be certain that people do do these things, and that generally they get away with it. This does not make it "okay" in a legal or ethical sense.

Your starting position should be that you can't have fires, go collecting material, or carrying cutting tools anywhere that you do not have the land owner's permission to do so. From there you can look into the specific rules that the National Trust, Forestry Service etc have for the land you are looking at. You can look at what justifications you could have, what the chances are of having to explain yourself to authorities, and what the consequences might be. Then you can make your own calculation of risk and how far you are prepared to step outside the rules.

However, when and if you do, we don't want you writing about it here.
 

Billy-o

Native
Apr 19, 2018
1,981
975
Canada
Being in Yorkshire, it may be that your best bet is to get a train to Scotland.

I was thinking about fires on beaches, but as everything seems more or less prohibited in England and Wales, I thought I'd check, and this discussion came up:

https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/1329/is-it-legal-to-light-bonfires-on-uk-beaches

Fires on beaches will often attract characters :)

.... Anyone know if charcoal barbecues are treated differently to open fires. If yes, you could pack a little hibachi :) There is a table top one you can get for about £10. Have a bit of care with them. Don't let them get like red hot or key features will simply burn off. Otherwise they are great and last and last ... don't throw water on them either, if you get a cast iron one. The steel ones are lightly built. So, just bear that in in mind, treat it with dignity and don't expect it to take roughhousing. You might want to fettle it a bit ... add some washers, different screws etc. for stability.

When the coals are dwindling it is nice to chuck a half a handful of herbs onto the grill ... makes for a lovely smell.

You can use those aluminium tray ones too. Not very bushcraft, I'd imagine but lightweight and more fun than a stove and you can keep them ticking over for hours feeding them biggish twigs - or the shavings from your carving and practising tent pegs etc :). Pack it back out though, there aren't many more irritating things than finding the remains of a fire and scrunched aluminium
 
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BJJJ

Native
Sep 3, 2010
1,998
162
North Shropshire
Lately there has been a spate of heath and woodland fires, some deliberately set, others through lightning etc, what I meant by being discreet is , make sure its safe to start a fire, preferably on a stone base make sure it is enclosed in some way, so it wont be spread by the wind, don,t start a fire on loose earth or peat, make sure you can put it out quickly and safely, and try not to be seen by members of the public, who may think its a wild fire and inform the authorities.

Reference carrying knives and tools, well basically if you have good reason to carry a LEGAL knife then you are entitled to carry one, again be discreet keep knives and axes etc, stashed away in you bag rucksack until you need to use them, (and read up on the relative laws about carrying knives),

Using dead wood on the woodland floor should not be a problem as long as you are discreet, don't go around chopping trees down, and always keep in mind you don't know who owns the dead wood, and you could theoretically be charged with theft or criminal damage on public or private land., Get in touch with local groups, they will tell you where you can go and be safe, there is plenty of moorland and woodland in your area to explore,and I am sure there are regular meetings of local groups to go to.

Don,t go buying loads of equipment, eventually you will discover what you need, go out with the basics it will then be obvious what essentials you require, there is plenty of info on this site regarding what basics you need, but obviously they will not cover everything, but make sure you have food water, shelter, and one good knife, you can make so much with a knife, shelters, tent poles and pegs, preparing food etc etc, a basic £10 Mora will be as good as any knife and if you unfortunately lose it it is cheaply replaced.

Get yourself a good book, I recommend John "Lofty" Wiseman,s SAS Survival Handbook ISBN 0-00-715899-8, either buy one or borrow it from your local Library. Go out and enjoy the peace and tranquillity of the outdoors.
agree 100%
 

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