Back To Nature. [Rewilding by Monbiot]

[Toddy]

Shall we all just take a deep breath, put the kettle on (or sommat else innocuous), and let this one go quiet until we have another go at the "re-wilding" topic ?

I hate locking threads, I love a good rambling discussion thread, but it only works if we all quietly acknowledge the elephant in the room and manage to avoid the piles of fresh manure the damned thing leaves around for the unwary .

M

 

[Toddy]

Hmmmm posts 159, 160 and 161…..

Sounds as though we're broadly in agreement, doesn't it ?

M

 

[Dave]

Shall we all just take a deep breath, put the kettle on (or sommat else innocuous), and let this one go quiet until we have another go at the "re-wilding" topic ?

I hate locking threads, I love a good rambling discussion thread, but it only works if we all quietly acknowledge the elephant in the room and manage to avoid the piles of fresh manure the damned thing leaves around for the unwary .

M

Good idea M. Thankyou for defusing the bomb.............im out of this one.

 

[Ferret75]

Uh-oh......another thread started by me thats gonna get locked. Woops.......again...... ............:theyareon

LMAO!
You just need to start a thread on Bear Grylls and you'll have the full collection Dave!

I'm not sure making the unearthing of religious intolerance and torturing moderators should be the purpose in life you were looking for..! Although you're bloody brilliant at it! LOL!
Hey... Maybe they should make you chief moderator and cut out the middleman... it would make their lives so much easier!

In all seriousness, the threads you started were in complete innocence and, in the main, were very interesting. Unfortunately it's a very fine line when they involve passionate subjects.

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[Goatboy]

Yup, from now on Dave has to apply in triplicate before starting any threads...


Kidding, it's just sad that some folk feel they have to pick at scabs and not follow the few simple rules that we have here. And it's a pity as I was fair enjoying the thread. Polarised subjects don't have to get emotive, just wish folk would learn to debate in a civilised manner.
Anyway I'm sitting watching an old documentry I have about the "Living In The Past" program that was on in 1978. I think I'll have the theme music in my head all day.
Would be nice to try another version of it with some folks from here. Such a depth of skills. And if the estate owner ever does get allowed to keep wolves on his estate they could film it there. See how many of us get eaten by them.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[Dave]

Hee heehe ehee thanks guys. I needed a laugh.

 

[george47]

OK, I get it, no religion... So is this the thread where we can discuss race and immigration then? Because I have lots to say...........

Now I have been amongst wolves, oddly enough as a kid I was on a wolf hunt as the spotlight holder wile spotlight hunting wolves in the Hindu-Kush mountains where the wolf is considered very dangerous to people during bad years, very destructive to flocks always, (we got one) and have been around wolves in Alaska (Yukon, NWT) although never saw one - just heard them, and around Coram and Hungry Horse Montana where their re-introduction was much disliked by the locals but may be accepted now - in USA/Canada the wolf is never feared.

So basically - the European/Asian wolf is some danger - and when things get hard, or they feel cornered, possibly likely if they feel their kill is being invaded - they could be dangerous and people would be prudent to fear them. As bears are in USA/Canada. The North American wolf is harmless unless it is a pet. Great Blue herons are one of the only birds that have killed humans (herons spear fish with their massive beaks - I had a tame one I would throw 1 pound, live mullet and he would spear it through to his head with a mighty beak thrust!) and in N America herons have killed more humans than wolves have, to put it into reference (2 documented wolf kills in history).

So I am sure Spanish wolves - say, would be not too bad. Wildlife can be surprisingly different in different populations - same sub-species, different races. The tales from Hungary and the Balkans always had the killer wolf tales as part of their folk lore - as does Russia, Tibet, China... USA never has except as an old world hangover.

The choosing of the wolfs would be paramount. I think it would be fantastic for them to be back in Scotland - I passed the marker by the road on the way to John-O-Groats many times, where the last wolf had been shot. Some government fund would have to be set up to cover livestock kills, as it does in USA in areas where reintroduction happens. Although it would not be racially correct - if I may say so here, I hear eggshells creaking - I think some from Grand Isle Michigan would be good ones to import to Scotland.

 

[george47]

LMAO!
You just need to start a thread on Bear Grylls and you'll have the full collection Dave!

Are there threads on BG? I have always been an outdoors-man and watched one of his shows a few Years ago and took such an intense dislike to him I was even surprised. I do not watch that kind of reality stuff, but it came on..........What a total wan*** I thought - is this a common view here?

Has BG expressed views on re-wilding UK? Although I could hardly be called a Monbiot fan either - but M is pretty straight up, and is what he is. I read of Monbiot catching big weaver fish and cooking them and since have held him in grudging respect as he must get some flack in the circles he otherwise panders to.

 

[Ferret75]

LMAO: George, please don't even go there my friend. BG has an ermm.. 'mixed reception' here at the best of times and the poor moderators get a nervous twitch when he's mentioned😨

It's OK to talk about him generally, but no mud slinging, insults or libellous stuff... which some, including myself, find extremely difficult where he is concerned. 'Forewarned is forearmed' mate.

Keep on the rewilding track with concern to Bushcraft and you may come out relatively unscathed!!!

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[Adze]

'forearmed'

Should we assume that your use of inverted commas makes the above euphemistic?

 

[Goatboy]

Getting the subtype of species right is pretty important on introduction/reintroduction.
Grey squirrels, American crayfish and some bird species haven't gone well. Though some like the Red Kite, Sea Eagles have gone okay so far. Even animals that were in balance when put somewhere slightly different get out of hand for some groups, like the hedgehog cull the RSPB organised on (forgotten the name) island a couple of years back. I know a lot of farmers were concerned by the beaver "escapes" 'round here as they didn't know how they'd change the landscape. Then there was the devistation of indigenous wildlife 'round where mink were set free. All this is just in UK. Look at the disasters 'round the globe by us mucking about with the balance.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[george47]

Getting dusk and I have wasted hours inside before I realized - time to lock up the bad chickens and maybe put out some shrimp bait - but invasive species.........all around here, terrible. I love the beavers for what they do in their right place, I have caught so many trout from beaver dams, and shot wood ducks over their dams in the Southern forests. They should go back to where they once were - but an active culling needs to be planned. They are giant bark eating rats really, although excellent ones.

 

[dewi]

Getting the subtype of species right is pretty important on introduction/reintroduction.

Which is why the wolves won't work in Scotland.

Where ever they are taken from, Scotland is relatively densely populated by people and livestock. Wolves left to roam wild are either be too timid or too aggressive (depending where they're taken from) and if you keep them in captivity, you need a brave warden to interact with them (again, depending on where they're taken from).

 

[Goatboy]

Getting pack dynamics right very important too. A few years back they had to put most of the pack down at the Highland Wildlife Park due to it getting messed up. Caused a bit of a stooshie at the time. Wolf pack interaction is a whole subject in its self.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[sandbender]

"...OK, I get it, no religion... So is this the thread where we can discuss race and immigration then? Because I have lots to say..."

No, you may not post on any of these topics, if you do you risk a ban.

"...What a total wan*** I thought ..."

This is a family friendly forum, use appropriate language please.

"...the European/Asian wolf is some danger - and when things get hard, or they feel cornered, possibly likely if they feel their kill is being invaded..."

Most of my in laws live in Transylvania and some live in the 'woods' raising sheep and horses, they do have some problems with wolves, however that only extends to a horse being injured and sheep killed, attacks on people or rare, less than ten in fifty years, in those cases the wolf was either rabid, injured or cornered during a hunt.

 

[Macaroon]

Should we assume that your use of inverted commas makes the above euphemistic?

Nice one!

 

[Arya]

Thank you for sharing this! It was just what I needed right now. Wonderfully written!

 

[WoodGnome]

Most of my in laws live in Transylvania and some live in the 'woods' raising sheep and horses, they do have some problems with wolves, however that only extends to a horse being injured and sheep killed, attacks on people or rare, less than ten in fifty years, in those cases the wolf was either rabid, injured or cornered during a hunt.

But that's the point actually. Romania is an excellent example imho. Wildlife can thrive there because - especially in the Carpatian Mountains - the landscape can't be changed as easily as it could in the rest of Europe because of the geological structure and of course there is not so much financial interest in the region cause it's a little off the beaten track. This situation is ideal for people and wildlife living close to each other - although the Carpatian shepherds might think differently - cause there is enough space for the both of them - because, and here it comes, there are FEW PEOPLE living in that region compared to the rest of Europe.

So with this situation given, people living there and living with their herds had to find solutions for the problems that arouse when live stock and predators clash. One of the solutions was the Carpatian shepherd dog - Ciobanesc Romanesc Carpatin. These animals would even fight off a bear. At least they won't retreat.

So if predators are to be introduced back into Europe this has to be done right. Areas of retreat are needed as well as compensation plans for live stock owners. People have to be educated in terms on what to and what not to do, where to and where not to go etc. This all costs money and that is why it won't be done. So the large predators are going to come back on their own (at least on the continent) and it will be a total mess as usual.

 

[boatman]

Management of what countryside we have left makes me wonder what it is for. It seems that some target species are in and the rest can go hang. A few years ago near us a wild spot on the chalk that was naturally returning to its original cover because it wasn't being grazed by sheep. Scrub was being followed by pioneer trees but the area offended the blueprint for what chalk downland "should" be and teams of volunteers and paid workers ripped out the new regrowths and perhaps the turf will return.

I don't deny the aesthetics of the Downs and they were much better before the last push by farmers to plough everything possible before the right to roam areas were designated but some areas must be allowed to rewild themselves,

 

[Ferret75]

Management of what countryside we have left makes me wonder what it is for. It seems that some target species are in and the rest can go hang. A few years ago near us a wild spot on the chalk that was naturally returning to its original cover because it wasn't being grazed by sheep. Scrub was being followed by pioneer trees but the area offended the blueprint for what chalk downland "should" be and teams of volunteers and paid workers ripped out the new regrowths and perhaps the turf will return.

I don't deny the aesthetics of the Downs and they were much better before the last push by farmers to plough everything possible before the right to roam areas were designated but some areas must be allowed to rewild themselves,

It's been this way for a long time now, hard to know what exactly is changing because of our 'progress', direct or indirect human tampering, and what is reverting back through a more 'natural' course of events.

In either case, as many have said beforehand, you won't stop people proliferating or developing land, for homes and / or profit. The availability of wild or green space in the UK is getting progressively less each year. The only realistic option seems to be incorporating both together in as sustainable and beneficial way as possible, but this takes money, care, knowledge and planning - but this doesn't make for quick homes or quick profits and would no doubt only be made available at a massive premium. We have a very shortsighted outlook, we have to get OUR bit right before we can reliably foresee and then maintain the welfare of wild animals and the environment.



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