Neolithic Cup and ring Explored!

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Gill

Full Member
Jun 29, 2004
3,464
6
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SCOTLAND
This day out was brought about by talking to a friend who is not local to Ayrshire and he was saying he wanted to come down and visit Ballochmyle cup and ring walls,This was the first I had ever heard of it ,and it is only ten mins drive from my house ,so I had to do a wee recce .I,m glad I went anyway here are some pics ,what a fantastic place!










 
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John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
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Pembrokeshire
That is the first time I have seen Cup and Ring on vertical faces ... it kind of destroys the theory (held to by some) that cup and ring were gaming surfaces with depressions for counters etc....
"Rien ne va plus!" indeed!
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
Good to see those Gill :D

I know of at least one theory, with a fair bit of back up, that claimed that they were maps. Always on features that people walking or on water would see. Perhaps not maps the way we see maps, but more maps full of social meaning too. People, steadings, relationships, etc.,
There's also a lot of discussion about whether they were coloured or not.

M
 

peatbog

Tenderfoot
Oct 7, 2008
60
0
paisley, Scotland
First time I've seen them on a wall, My theory...... find cup and rings on an o.s. map, the rings seem to go in a perfect straight line about the same distance apart.
I have thought they could be way/ distance marks, like later day milestones. looks like my theory could be wrong.

Peatbog
 

Haggis

Nomad
I've seen pictographs and carvings on stone in many places in the U.S. and Canada, and as with most every one else, I indulge myself in guessing why they were made, or what they signified. Then I think of the stones in cemeteries, each marked with someone's name, and some bit of something about them. There was/is a saying among the aboriginal peoples here in North America; "Only the rocks live forever". I would prefer to think that these ancient people were trying to leave something of themselves, some sign that they had passed through life, some marking to let others know that they once lived, loved, fought, smiled, hungered, felt the cold wind, and basked in the warm sun, some sign to future generations so that they would not be forgotten.
 

Dreadhead

Bushcrafter through and through
fascinating, have also never seen them vertical, but have come across them up in the hills around perthshire whilst digging soil profiles. We always thought they were maps or land markers of some sort, but who really knows eh ;) thanks for sharing!
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
Thing is, they predate the hill forts, so, the idea that they're indicator/maps holds good when the population is numbered in the thousands and not the millions, and warfare over territory, resources and people isn't yet an issue.
Hillforts start in the rBonze age but really come to the fore in the Iron age.

Megalithic art such as the cup and rings appear to be meant to be seen, not hidden away in caves for only those who made them, braved the dark, or endured some ritual. Markers of some kind, whether maps or remembrances; lots of theories, lots of ideas, but apart from stylistic development and contexts and comparisons with others, we really do know very little about them.

Sometimes I think it best just to think of them as a "We were here, we were a people, we lived on this land", kind of thing.

It's an incredibly ancient habit this pecking marks and rings on stones by humanity. We have them from at least 100,000 years ago (remember Scotland's landmass was scraped clean by the ice, and that only retreated about 10,000 years ago) and we know that Neandethals used them too.

Some (elsewhere) are clearly used for pigments, some channel water in a 'flow', many have been reused in ritual sites and yet others are literally musical instruments. The rocks sing as they are struck :D but then we know of hand carved bird bone flutes that are at least 30,000 years old ( Hohle Fels cave).

Loads of links for more reading, but some I've read recently are.....

http://www.archaeology.co.uk/articles/features/trefael-the-dolmen-that-became-a-standing-stone.htm

http://www.academia.edu/7769868/Por...p-Marked_Stones_and_Prehistoric_Rock_Carvings


I sometimes wonder what our ancestors would make of our music and of our road network :) I think they'd approve of the boots though :D

M
 

Tracker NTS-054

Forager
Sep 8, 2013
172
0
Nottinghamshire
I've seen pictographs and carvings on stone in many places in the U.S. and Canada, and as with most every one else, I indulge myself in guessing why they were made, or what they signified. Then I think of the stones in cemeteries, each marked with someone's name, and some bit of something about them. There was/is a saying among the aboriginal peoples here in North America; "Only the rocks live forever". I would prefer to think that these ancient people were trying to leave something of themselves, some sign that they had passed through life, some marking to let others know that they once lived, loved, fought, smiled, hungered, felt the cold wind, and basked in the warm sun, some sign to future generations so that they would not be forgotten.

What a beautiful post! For a small increment of time I forgot about everything else and I was with them.. Thank you for that Haggis
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,108
2,841
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Pembrokeshire
The first link confuses me...
The "Nevern" I know is in West Wales - not SE Wales - and has a Portal Cromlech near-by called Llechydrybedd and another called Carreg Coetan Arthur not far away...
The photo seems to be of Pentre Ifan Cromlech near the Nevern in West Wales and there is a stone - with cup marks Near Nevern West Wales called the Trefoel or Trefael Stone...
If the article cannot tell East fro West how can you trust anything else in it?
 

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