Firesteel on sheath? yay or nay?

[Toddy]

Why should it be part of the sheath ? Sandbender's seperate holder for the firesteel, that matches both the scales and the leatherwork of the sheath is surely a very practical idea ? ( I've just noticed that his firesteel isn't covered, but it's surely not beyond mortal wit to construct a simple sheath for one)
Either folks buy both pieces, as a matching set, or simply buy the plain sheath.

Win/win situation.
You don't need to ever make a sheath with the loop, and I'm sure that many customers would be tempted to buy the offered matching accessory

cheers,
M

 

[marcelxl]

I voted a yes but I'm indifferent really, I have a couple of my users with and couple without. The ones without are not the best spark throwers anyway so I don't sweat it.

I think you would end up with a pretty even split and valid points about the longevity of the loops in regular use......... I have had them go a bit baggy and even the best of them I loop them around just in case.
Commercially, I think a lot more of the casual outdoors types and gear freaks would go for it or could be persuaded to!

 

[Paganwolf]

I keep a ferro rod on my poss/belt pouch I tend to go through a few so i find it better to keep it secured to that rather than a belt knife as i carry a Leatherman tool as a striker in the pouch also.. Horses for courses..

 

[Mr Adoby]

I think sheaths with/without a loop for a ferrocerium rod are two very different products. I would suggest that you should market them as such.

Ferrocerium is a high tech man made material. I don't see that as any more safe or "bushcrafty" than using matches or a lighter. I have a ferrocerium rod in my pack, but also a few BIC lighters. But I store it in a pouch to keep it dry. Once you have removed the protective paint from the ferro rod it will corrode quickly if wet. And especially if in contact with damp leather. A holder for a BIC lighter would be more reasonable in my opinion...

 

[MartinK9]

On a knife sheath is soooo last year........

Twodogs puts them on his axes.

Twodogs

 

[sandbender]

On a knife sheath is soooo last year........

Twodogs puts them on his axes.

mmmm, nice looking gear there.

"...seperate holder for the firesteel, that matches both the scales and the leatherwork of the sheath is surely a very practical idea ? ( I've just noticed that his firesteel isn't covered, but it's surely not beyond mortal wit to construct a simple sheath for one)..."

Well actually there is a slot/tube for the rod, attaching it to the neck cord is just a bit of fiddly knot work which ensures I don't drop it on a dark night. The rod on that sheath has been used about five times, if I'm not using matches or another method, I keep a rod in my pocket attached to a belt loop with a cord.

I like the idea of the 'one package' means of cutting/sharpening/lighting a fire, tying something together that that sheath offers, I even have a small marbles compass in a leather pouch hanging from that neck cord these days, I'm probably harking back to the eighties when I lusted after a Lile Sly II.

However I almost never use that sheath, I prefer a plain belt sheath with no add ons.

If I was going to order a knife from Dave I'd probably buy one without a rod holder.

 

[TinkyPete]

Dave, I am one of the few that voted yes, and I will try and articulate why....

I know that there are many ways to light a fire, and for most bushcrafters we love playing with it and trying new methods. I use lots myself and oft have a lighter in my pocket or matches or a rod and then in my pack I have other methods as well. I was raised and was a Scout and their motto is "Be Prepared" so as I last ditch kit if I have my knife and means of fire starter I can survive with knowledge and luck

It is a quintessential and iconic combination a knife and Fire steel. So I think you should offer it to customers we are not always right but some of us like it I think that if you are not keen in the extra work you should offer it as an extra and not a standard feature but still give the option. I do like the other methods of attaching extras that people have posted up. I realise that this may have given you more food for thought but I did have to put my 2p in the pot I hope this has offended to many people.

 

[Nomad]

yeah, my thoughts are pretty similar. The little bit of businessman in me says it make much more sense to have it fitted as standard and offer the saving. Then the other side of me is the part that really can't be bothered making and fitting the bloody things!

Exactlty what I was thinking. I'd imagine that a proportion of customers will buy whatever the 'default' product is. So, if you don't particularly like doing them with the firesteels, leaving them off will result in making less of that version. Leaving them off would also mean that your headline price is lower than it would be otherwise.


FTR, I voted no. I bought a used Paul Baker woody copy with a firesteel holder, but for the narrower diameter type. Didn't particularly like the firesteel and the loop is too small for the bigger Light My Fire one I already have. Aside from that, I'm in the 'a knife is a knife' camp, and I think I prefer the slimmer profile of a sheath without the firesteel loop. (I now have to decide whether to cut the loop off my sheath, or sort out a new one...)

 

[Dave]

I dont know why more makers dont offer protective liners in their bushcraft sheaths.
Wooden sheath liners have been used forover a century in Puukkos. Im sure lots of other native people used em too? Must be a good reason for that...
Maybe its not neccesary, but after you've used one for a while, I reckon most would prefer their sheath with one, than without.

 

[Simon H]

A well engineered sheath doesn't need a liner.

I wear a thin lightweight rod round my neck in a papoose, or have a fullsize one in my pack as i go through them in season. I can see the point of having one on the sheath, but as I wear knives around my neck it all ends up a bit heavy. So it's no from me.

 

[Dave]

A well engineered sheath doesn't need a liner.

Are you saying that every knife ever produced with a sheath liner was poorly engineered? Thats an oversimplistic answer.
Im talking about your average leather bushcraft knife sheath. Not kydex etc.
I've owned Alan Wood Woodlores, to Rob Bayley Saxons, Puukkos, to £8 moras. Some of those were pretty well engineered....
I just prefer a sheath liner.
I guess because it feels more hygenic, tougher, safer, protects the welt, and it gives a greater feeling of security when your blade clicks in.

 

[Corso]

I like the firesteel/sharpening stone combo on a sheath

 

[Simon H]

Are you saying that every knife ever produced with a sheath liner was poorly engineered? Thats an oversimplistic answer.

I don't think that's what I said. What I hoped to convey was that a sheath that is well engineered in leather neither needs a liner nor suffers from it's absence. I am not knocking liners, some scandi ones that have the wood exposed at the top of the sheath really are eye candy.

The click when a knife is pushed into the sheath is easy enough with just leather and wet moulding with a good fit, the liner makes no difference to that.

 

[Dave Budd]

The scandi sheathes have liners largely because of the method of cinstructing the leatherwork (seam up the back means no welt for stiffness) and also they use htinner leather in the first place. Different styles for different folks

with thicker leather and the use of a welt, there is no reason for a liner. If you put a liner in as well then you would end up with something that is much bulkier than needed, as well as more expensive to make

 

[Dave]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Mine is the minority viewpoint, but it is more hygenic, tougher, safer, protects the welt more than without one, and does give me a greater sense of security. Doesnt feel too bulky either.

Didnt the american indians use rawhide to make theirs?

Dont want to hijack your thread.

 

[Simon H]

Mate I can't agree to disagree, sorry, things should be straight as people will read this off the net and get the wrong idea.

There isn't a welt in a sheath with a liner, the liner replaces the welt, so it can't protect it more as it isn't there. The welt is the extra layer, that retains the blade, sown into the space between the two sides or layers of leather in a sheath without a liner.

Hygiene wise, a dirty knife in a leather sheath or a lined one will probably make you ill in time either way, and I'd be surprised if it is actually tougher and safer, probably just similar, than an equally well made full leather sheath.

 

[spandit]

Isn't the welt there to protect the stitching? Why would it then need protecting with a liner? What protects the liner?

I've got an all leather sheath on my bushcraft knife (made by someone of this Parish). The blade clicks in and feels very secure. I've never seen a liner in a leather sheath

 

[Dave]

There isn't a welt in a sheath with a liner, the liner replaces the welt, so it can't protect it more as it isn't there. The welt is the extra layer, that retains the blade, sown into the space between the two sides or layers of leather in a sheath without a liner.

Hygiene wise, a dirty knife in a leather sheath or a lined one will probably make you ill in time either way, and I'd be surprised if it is actually tougher and safer, probably just similar, than an equally well made full leather sheath.

Well, Im no expert at sheath making, but I know what a welt is.

I dont know why think you cant have a welt and a sheath liner...?

I think the tougher and safer argument is pretty obvious. A knife slices easier through leather than a plastic liner.

 

[Amon81]

Really for me it depends which knife I'm using.

Take my two main blades, if I'm using my Trapper (my main goto knife) it has a firesteel on the sheath I made. But say I'm using my Roselli (sp) Carpenter I don't have one as I carry it round my neck and use its original sheath.



I always have one in a pocket or round my neck (light my fire scout size in the the tip of a dear horn with leather necklass) reguardless what setup I use though.

 

[John Fenna]

I have made sheaths with liners, I have made welted sheaths without liners, I have made wooden sheaths, I have made welted sheaths with liners, I have made fabric sheaths with liners.
I have never cut through any of them.
I have never got sick from any of them.
Mostly I make welted leather sheaths these days - less work, fewer different materials, no noticable lack of security or hygeine...
If you want to add a liner to a welted sheath get a bit of plastic from the side of a cider or coke bottle, heat it, bend it, shape it and slide it into a wetted sheath and the sheath can mould to it and the knife.
A sheath with stitching up the back will not need a liner if the sheath is designed and flattened so that the leather does not come in contact with the sharp bits of the knife...

If you make a sheath with a ferro rod holder then the purchaser could always cut it off if they do not want it....