Have a relative who used to work for Cardiff council, and he said they don't even recycle the recyclable waste. Or certainly didn't when they rolled out all the various bins.
The Rise and Fall of the Plastic Bag
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Have a relative who used to work for Cardiff council, and he said they don't even recycle the recyclable waste. Or certainly didn't when they rolled out all the various bins.
They're really not all that expensive here. The regular ones are only $0.50 at the commissary (slightly more in a civilian store) and the "Cold Bags" (insulated ones for cold goods) are only $1.
The following conversation between a customer and the bagger at a grocery store supposedly actually happened; whether it did or not, the sentiment is certainly true:
Bagger, "Paper or plastic ma'am?"
Customer, "What's the difference?"
Bagger (with a shoulder shrug) "Kill a tree, or choke a fish."
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
To be truthful the coloured bin bag thing. Our kitchen has two bins, a plastic bag that collects compostable waste that goes to the garden and a kitchen bin. One week it has blue bags, and one week it has black, the same stuff goes in regardless. Life is too short to work out if tetra packs, beer cans with wigdets or polystyrene can go in the blue bag. It probably all ends up in the same tip in nantycaws [does that really translate as cheese river?]. The councils hit the targets for the amount in tons that people put into recycling, not for how much they actually recycle.
For litter, cutting takeway waste would make a huge difference. I dont get why mcdonald wrappers feature so heavily, sticking their stuff in a recycled paper bag with please dispose of carefully doesnt help. I dont know if they charge for the brown bag or not, but they seriously need less packaging. Not serving numpties that simply throw the bag out the car window isnt going to happen.
For litter, cutting takeway waste would make a huge difference. I dont get why mcdonald wrappers feature so heavily, sticking their stuff in a recycled paper bag with please dispose of carefully doesnt help. I dont know if they charge for the brown bag or not, but they seriously need less packaging. Not serving numpties that simply throw the bag out the car window isnt going to happen.
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You'll never change your mind chap even with logic staring you in the face.
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I don't come under Cardiff but I'd not be surprised if the lot went into land fill. There is no money in paper recycling these days.
But what about whatever replaces them? In the late 19th/early 20th centuries there was a convincing argument to switch to automobiles; largely to eliminate pollution from horse manure. I'm sure we all agree that worked so well for the environment don't we?
Its not people who choose to recycle that really get on my nerves, its people who think they have the right to dictate what other people do with their lives or in their homes (the proposers of this legislation not the OP). If people spent more time improving themselves and less time trying to impose their wishes on others, the world would be a much better place. The role of government is (or should be) to provide essential services to the people it serves (serves, there is a notion). The role of government is not (or should not be) to regulate every aspect of our daily lives.
I really do tire of this do gooder nannyism.
I really do tire of this do gooder nannyism.
i respect that you have a different opinion but i'm not sure why you are so keen for me to change my own mind, i thought a forum was for debate with different opinions to be expected and respected and not a place where everyone had to sychophantically agree with each other. My opinion remains the same and i have no more to add.
I'm fiercely against do-gooder nannyism - for things that should be a personal choice. Crash-helmets, seatbelts, drinking, smoking, drugs even - I disagree hugely with legal punishments, punative taxes or prohibition.
Litter affects everyone, utilizing a tax/charge technique shown to cause improvement, without major disruption or hardship to people, I'm all in favour.
But it isn't to prevent all litter Rod - we have laws against littering. A law is proposed because people break existing litter laws. That way madness lies. People don't obey the law so we pass a law.
I can see where you're coming from, I don't see it that way though - the existing law is ineffective (especially in the countryside) - but adding a value to something people currently think of as free and disposable doesn't enforce behavior, it forces a change in thinking/attitude - for the better, and hopefully once it's accepted by the majority, then the herd instinct kicks in.
I see it as punishing the innocent.
Its the same as "minimum unit pricing for alcohol".
Some people fail to behave sensibly or break existing rules, so a punishment is applied to everyone - including those who did nothing wrong.
That is not the behaviour of a "public servant" but it absolutely is "nannyism"
Its the same as "minimum unit pricing for alcohol".
Some people fail to behave sensibly or break existing rules, so a punishment is applied to everyone - including those who did nothing wrong.
That is not the behaviour of a "public servant" but it absolutely is "nannyism"
I fear that the "minimum unit pricing for alcohol" isn't just about punishing the innocent but yet another tax for greediness sake. I will only skirt politics here as we're on the boards but those Nationalist loonies up here are trying to enforce some crazily unpopular ideas whilst hiding behind the appeal of National "freedom" that the weak minded can't see past. Anyhow that's just my small opinion and in no way reflects that of BCUK.
I can't see how this is nannyism to be fair. If you're switched on there's no need to ever buy a bag. In Wales so many places have given out free heavy duty bags for life of varying quality as this has come into effect, we're over run with them at home. Even if you forget the bags you soon realise that quite often they're not needed. Small shops will happily give you old packing boxes instead for free, at supermarkets you can load the car straight from the trolley and bag it up at home, one time I forgot my bags and bought a plastic flower pot which was on sale to put everything in 
I've got some lovely rosemary growing in it now... You soon get used to having a stash of bags in the car or bag just in case.
Reduce, re-use, re-cycle (don't forget repair, rot or even refuse) goes a long way. My bin liners now are the plastic wraps you get on magazines and phones books etc, old pet food sacks, the bags from toilet rolls and other such packaging that probably just got bined a few years ago. If you think that reducing plastic bags stopped at just that then you're doing it wrong. Sometimes you need to empty the bin a bit sooner but it's not exactly hard to do.
Maybe a total ban would have worked but charities like the RSPB who've netted £1m from Tesco alone won't complain too much. I hope it's a step towards not just doing away with disposable plastic bags but in reducing waste all together. It's not going to hit home with everyone but I think it's woken a large amount of people up to reducing waste in general and that includes supermarkets etc. It's early days though I guess and only time will tell if it's a fad or a true shift in attitude. It would be a bigger achievement if the percentage of non-reusable bags being bought dropped on it's own without a ban in my opinion
It's worth having a search on google for zero waste websites if anyone is interested. There are people showing that it can be done (alhough it seems it costs a lot more and is a pain in the backside for the most part) but it might make you think about buying a product in paper packaging rather than plastic if nothing else.
I've got some lovely rosemary growing in it now... You soon get used to having a stash of bags in the car or bag just in case. Reduce, re-use, re-cycle (don't forget repair, rot or even refuse) goes a long way. My bin liners now are the plastic wraps you get on magazines and phones books etc, old pet food sacks, the bags from toilet rolls and other such packaging that probably just got bined a few years ago. If you think that reducing plastic bags stopped at just that then you're doing it wrong. Sometimes you need to empty the bin a bit sooner but it's not exactly hard to do.
Maybe a total ban would have worked but charities like the RSPB who've netted £1m from Tesco alone won't complain too much. I hope it's a step towards not just doing away with disposable plastic bags but in reducing waste all together. It's not going to hit home with everyone but I think it's woken a large amount of people up to reducing waste in general and that includes supermarkets etc. It's early days though I guess and only time will tell if it's a fad or a true shift in attitude. It would be a bigger achievement if the percentage of non-reusable bags being bought dropped on it's own without a ban in my opinion
It's worth having a search on google for zero waste websites if anyone is interested. There are people showing that it can be done (alhough it seems it costs a lot more and is a pain in the backside for the most part) but it might make you think about buying a product in paper packaging rather than plastic if nothing else.
It never made sense to me to regulate or ban products all together. It seems like a poorly targeted attack on people's freedoms. Why not focus the efforts on stopping the problematic behavior and those who are guilty of it rather than painting everyone with the same broad brush? Why infringe on everyone's freedoms rather than target the ones who are causing the problem? I would understand increasing fines for littering, funding more rangers, etc, but seems like overkill to ban a product that millions of people use and dispose of responsively.
I think the problem is as rg598 says - an attack on freedoms. I don't want to be forced to donate 5p to charity because someone else litters their carrier bags. I do not - so why should I pay for their ignorance? That is what makes it nannying.
The main reason that legislation in this country, and I daresay in the 'states as well, has become nannying is because the people who put themselves forward to create such legislation have neither the imagination or the skills to do anything other than regulate according to the lowest common denominator in society. They seem to be incapable of anything other than short term-ism and pandering to the Hampstead feel-good eco warriors who have less idea of reality than my ar5e.
They say you get the government you deserve..........................I wonder what I've done to deserve those that we seem to get?................atb mac
They say you get the government you deserve..........................I wonder what I've done to deserve those that we seem to get?................atb mac
Sorry, cross post with Macaroon.
Oh get over it. Paying a few pennies for a carrier bag is hardly an infringement of freedoms
The enormous majority of shoppers really don't give a hoot about what happens to the millions of carrier bags they happily stash their shopping into....and the vast majority do not reuse, recycle or otherwise sensibly dispose of, them either.
They are litter.
The only known way of limiting their consumption is to charge them for the bags in the first place.
By giving something 'free' a value, even if it's pennies, actually makes folks think about whether they need it in the first place, and how many they actually need too.
Tough if it costs everyone, it's hardly bank breaking sums we're talking about, it's simply a few pennies to pay for a plastic bag, that might make folks only take them if really needed.
The freebies are costing all of us (environmentally) anyway, at least this effort will cut down some of the littering, and it will change attitudes, even if it's by a miniscule amount.
It's a start, and I haven't heard any other ideas come forward that are addressing the issue otherwise.
Littering is a crime.....who's going to pay to enforce it though? and I don't believe that any rational person believes that a punishment that totally outweighs the crime is a reasonable response. We don't chop the hands of children who steal food in this country, let's not go there with the littering either.
It's unenforceable, otherwise it'd have been done already.
The only way to stop it is to change attitudes and behaviour by personal decision. Encouraging it along is a good thing.
Toddy
MOD HAT ON.......please mind the forum guidelines on no politcs; restraint would be much appreciated
Oh get over it. Paying a few pennies for a carrier bag is hardly an infringement of freedoms
The enormous majority of shoppers really don't give a hoot about what happens to the millions of carrier bags they happily stash their shopping into....and the vast majority do not reuse, recycle or otherwise sensibly dispose of, them either.
They are litter.
The only known way of limiting their consumption is to charge them for the bags in the first place.
By giving something 'free' a value, even if it's pennies, actually makes folks think about whether they need it in the first place, and how many they actually need too.
Tough if it costs everyone, it's hardly bank breaking sums we're talking about, it's simply a few pennies to pay for a plastic bag, that might make folks only take them if really needed.
The freebies are costing all of us (environmentally) anyway, at least this effort will cut down some of the littering, and it will change attitudes, even if it's by a miniscule amount.
It's a start, and I haven't heard any other ideas come forward that are addressing the issue otherwise.
Littering is a crime.....who's going to pay to enforce it though? and I don't believe that any rational person believes that a punishment that totally outweighs the crime is a reasonable response. We don't chop the hands of children who steal food in this country, let's not go there with the littering either.
It's unenforceable, otherwise it'd have been done already.
The only way to stop it is to change attitudes and behaviour by personal decision. Encouraging it along is a good thing.
Toddy
MOD HAT ON.......please mind the forum guidelines on no politcs; restraint would be much appreciated
widu13
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I'm unsure about Scotland Toddy, but it's not in England and Wales. It is an offence but not a crime. Local Authorities and the police can deal with it by a variety of ways including a ticket. If your dispose of "controlled" waste by dumping (littering) then yes that becomes a crime (criminal record, prison sentence possible etc)
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